Is This Cheating?

[GlennG]

While we were playing Munchkin the other night one of the players started messing with me from the first monster I drew until about the mid point of the game, he was out of cards.

He kicked in the door and drew a monster that he could beat, he asked if anyone was going to do anything to stop him, no one replied. So I said, "if you give me the monster's treasure I won't stop you from winning this fight." He agreed.

Two of the guys playing freaked out. They said that I was cheating by doing that. I said its all part of playing the game but decided not to go through with the deal because they were so bent out of shape about it.

Who was right? Can you bribe someone like that?

[MunchkinMan]

Well, he can't outright give you the Treasure. A player can trade Items (which means that the cards must be in play), and you can play a GUAL card on anyone. Since the other player beat the Monster on his own, he can draw the cards face down and put them in his hand without showing them to anyone. He would then have to play any Items he received in order to give them to you. GUAL cards have to be played from the hand. Any Treasure card that isn't an Item, or is some kind of card that can be played on anyone, can't be given to you. Since he was winning, he couldn't receive your help.

So, is it cheating? No. Bribing someone like that isn't illegal. But, it does take some work to make it happen, and if he gets a bunch of cards that he can't give to you, as per the rules, you've made a bad deal. In the end, there are better ways to phrase that arrangement to guarantee you see what cards he gets and then trades any Items to you, plays any GUALs on you, and that he gives you something from his previous cards or Items in play if he picks up cards he can't trade or play on you.

[Andrew Hackard]

Echoing MunchkinMan: This is not, in itself, cheating.

It is bullying, however, and Munchkin has lots of ways to make things very difficult for bullies. You may want to keep that in mind.

[edge970]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Well, he can't outright give you the Treasure. A player can trade Items (which means that the cards must be in play), and you can play a GUAL card on anyone. Since the other player beat the Monster on his own, he can draw the cards face down and put them in his hand without showing them to anyone. He would then have to play any Items he received in order to give them to you. GUAL cards have to be played from the hand. Any Treasure card that isn't an Item, or is some kind of card that can be played on anyone, can't be given to you. Since he was winning, he couldn't receive your help.

So, is it cheating? No. Bribing someone like that isn't illegal. But, it does take some work to make it happen, and if he gets a bunch of cards that he can't give to you, as per the rules, you've made a bad deal. In the end, there are better ways to phrase that arrangement to guarantee you see what cards he gets and then trades any Items to you, plays any GUALs on you, and that he gives you something from his previous cards or Items in play if he picks up cards he can't trade or play on you.

You can't just give treasure away like a donation? Maybe I read that wrong but there's nothing in the rules about this?

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by edge970

You can't just give treasure away like a donation? Maybe I read that wrong but there's nothing in the rules about this?

You can give an Item in play to another player if they want to take it. You can't give ANY cards from your hand (except as Charity), and you can't give Doors or non-Item Treasure cards such as Really Impressive Title. (When splitting Treasure after a battle, those aren't your cards to give away until the division is made, and at that point the regular rules apply for giving cards away.)

[PK]

If it helps, the mnemonic that I use when explaining the difference is, "You can't trade cards, but you can trade items. An item is something with a gold-piece value that's in play on the table."

That would apply here as well: You can't just give away Treasure cards, but you can give away items (by first playing them, then passing them over).