gurps 4th forever

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Personally, I would not object to 4th edition: revised, at least for GURPS magic...

Magic needs a basic editing and work to make it agree with Basic more than re-imagining, I believe.

[tg_ambro]

I always chuckle whenever I see talk of a 5e of GURPS. Not that the subjec is inherently humorous, no, it's that I have an ongoing wager with my brother: Should SJG release GURPS 5e before 2020, I have to get him a complete set with a few other books. If they don't, he has to run a anime inspired high-school drama game. :)

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by zuldan

if magic had more of a system to it, if there is i dont see it. Almost seems like random ideas.

The issue is that GURPS Magic for its Fourth Edition is the last of the Third Edition supplements. As such, how we deem it to be has gotten worse over time, as both we and SJ Games now know better what a Fourth Edition supplement should be. I took a quick look at some of the comments about it in 2005 and 2006, and we didn't deem it as bad as we do now. Personally, I think Powers changed how we thought such a supplement should be that we are unable to wrap our minds around what was not an issue in 2005: it's a bunch of spells with related magic items, and some elixirs and extra rules.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

The issue is that GURPS Magic for its Fourth Edition is the last of the Third Edition supplements. As such, how we deem it to be has gotten worse over time, as both we and SJ Games now know better what a Fourth Edition supplement should be. I took a quick look at some of the comments about it in 2005 and 2006, and we didn't deem it as bad as we do now. Personally, I think Powers changed how we thought such a supplement should be that we are unable to wrap our minds around what was not an issue in 2005: it's a bunch of spells with related magic items, and some elixirs and extra rules.

Agreed. I think instead of redoing GURPS Magic we can see the spells that need to be changed done so in the new magic college supplements. If the Powers that Be deem it so.
And plenty of room for more Thaumatology supplements as today's announcement shows.

[Kuroshima]

After thinking for some time on this, I think that I found some other books that would need updates in this hypothetical 4th edition, revised:

• Basic Set, to include revised stats for Low Tech weapons and armor
• High Tech, to harmonize it with Low Tech
• Ultratech, to harmonize it with the revised High Tech (and with the current High Tech) and with Gun Fu and Tactical Shooting.
• Magic, to give it a full editing pass.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

The issue is that GURPS Magic for its Fourth Edition is the last of the Third Edition supplements. As such, how we deem it to be has gotten worse over time, as both we and SJ Games now know better what a Fourth Edition supplement should be. I took a quick look at some of the comments about it in 2005 and 2006, and we didn't deem it as bad as we do now. Personally, I think Powers changed how we thought such a supplement should be that we are unable to wrap our minds around what was not an issue in 2005: it's a bunch of spells with related magic items, and some elixirs and extra rules.

Most of my issues with Magic 3rd were solved with the ritual path magic from spirits and Thaumatology.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Most of my issues with Magic 3rd were solved with the ritual path magic from spirits and Thaumatology.

Mine were not. I want a system with:

• Discrete spells. Freeform systems are fine and dandy, but I personally don't recommend for newbies, who already have their mental bandwidth filled by the myriad of options GURPS offers.
• Scaling. The system ought to work reasonably well at multiple power levels. Magic hits a hard cap on power very fast. Versatility can only go so far to compensate. Would you play a 2k points fire mage, using the standard magic system, or a powers based fire controller?
• Balanced. The different options inside of the system should not have big differences in power (normalized to point cost). Magic has lots and lots of borderline useless spells (haircut?), and a few game breaking spells. It must also be balanced with other subsystems.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

After thinking for some time on this, I think that I found some other books that would need updates in this hypothetical 4th edition, revised:[LIST][*]Basic Set, to include revised stats for Low Tech weapons and armor

This one's not bad. There are a few errata and rules tweaks it would be nice to see in a Fourth Edition, Revised, as well.

[*]High Tech, to harmonize it with Low Tech

I LPed HT, so I'll admit my bias here. But I'd harmonize the other two books with HT, not any other way around.

High Tech isn't "stuff we made up" or "hypothetical extrapolations of current tech," or even "our best guess/informed statement about a lot of stuff where we have limited data." It's "stuff we can mostly touch, feel, and get receipts for." It's the most REAL of the series. That needs to be the touchstone, with LT and HT extrapolating from there.

[*]Ultratech, to harmonize it with the revised High Tech (and with the current High Tech) and with Gun Fu and Tactical Shooting.

This would be neat to see, I agree.

[*]Magic, to give it a full editing pass.

I'd go father than this, in tune with your comments in a later post of yours. Scalable power levels, and a spell design system based on mana points that works like the Technique Design System in Martial Arts.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Mine were not. I want a system with:

• Discrete spells. Freeform systems are fine and dandy, but I personally don't recommend for newbies, who already have their mental bandwidth filled by the myriad of options GURPS offers.
• Scaling. The system ought to work reasonably well at multiple power levels. Magic hits a hard cap on power very fast. Versatility can only go so far to compensate. Would you play a 2k points fire mage, using the standard magic system, or a powers based fire controller?
• Balanced. The different options inside of the system should not have big differences in power (normalized to point cost). Magic has lots and lots of borderline useless spells (haircut?), and a few game breaking spells. It must also be balanced with other subsystems.

Discrete spells are a win for just about everyone, though free form and relaible easy to understand and consistent methods are also a big plus. So I would like both. We have the latter.

Scaling. Oh yeah, in fact I have run games (Supers) with 1k mages who could kick the tail out of most power based builds. It would be worse at 2k, the exception are speedsters as whomever goes first tends to win.

What you call borderline useless I call good flavor.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

This one's not bad. There are a few errata and rules tweaks it would be nice to see in a Fourth Edition, Revised, as well.

It's mostly minor, I agree, but I need an excuse to justify buying the basic set again ;)

I LPed HT, so I'll admit my bias here. But I'd harmonize the other two books with HT, not any other way around.

The thing here, would be to use Low Tech armor by material and area, and make sure that the parts on using TL4 armor with TL5 materials work. I seem to remember that there was a "DR doubles" or something (players here, can't go and check)

High Tech isn't "stuff we made up" or "hypothetical extrapolations of current tech," or even "our best guess/informed statement about a lot of stuff where we have limited data." It's "stuff we can mostly touch, feel, and get receipts for." It's the most REAL of the series. That needs to be the touchstone, with LT and HT extrapolating from there.

It's just making the interface between TL4 and TL5 as smooth as possible

This would be neat to see, I agree.

Yep, no more HT guns with HT projectile and propellant modifications being superior to UT guns for less $.

I'd go father than this, in tune with your comments in a later post of yours. Scalable power levels, and a spell design system based on mana points that works like the Technique Design System in Martial Arts.

Yeah. That would be ideal. However, a full editing pass would be enough to make me buy it again. (Bonus points if it came with new art BTW. Oh and spells by alphabetical, PLEASE).