A GURPS Magic System for Mythic American Indian

[joshualevy]

I'm working on a setting which I call "Mythic American Indian". It is a fantasy setting based on a mash up of Native American mythology. It is strictly pre-contact (no horses, no wheels, no metal tools).

I'm trying to find a GURPS Magic system that will feel right in this setting, but also be fun to play. My basic restrictions are these:

• I have GURPS Basic, Magic, Thaumatology, Fantasy, and Low Tech, and I would prefer not to need any more books for this project, but if the perfect solution requires a book I don't have, then I will get it.
• I would prefer to use existing GURPS rules for this, but I will create my own if needed.
• I want magic to take a while to cast, and usually require a group to work together to cast it.
• I also want Shaman and Priests (my magic users) to particpate in combat.
• It is very important that the magic system "feel like" the magic of native american stories.

My Thinking So Far

I think that combining Ceremonial Magic with the ability to cast spells on specific items, which can then be used later (with quick effect) is the way to do what I want. And I think this basic framework has the "feel" that I want. But there are some problems:

First, Ceremonial Magic only slows things down by 10x, so a 1 second combat spell now takes 10 seconds. That's not exactly what I want. What I want is for the ceremony to take longer (minutes or even an hour). The result of that ceremony would then be an object which the caster could use to release the spell in a second.

Also, I'd like that once the ceremony was set up, the same spell could be cast repeatedly on different objects for an incremental cost.

Take "Ball of Lighting" (M197) as an example. Standard time is 1-3 seconds. I would like a 30-90 minute ceremony to enchant an object (maybe a bird's feather) with the spell, which could then be activated in combat in 1-3 seconds. If the caster wanted to create a second feather at the same ceremony, that would only add maybe 10-30 minutes to the ceremony.

Second, I don't want Shaman to be walking around with 100s of arrow heads that do magical damage, or anything like that, so there has to be a way to limit what a magic user can carry.

I would allow solitary ceremony magic (F130), so Shaman and maybe even Priests could cast spells by themselves.

My Two Questions

Can anyone recommend a collection of GURPS rules that will give me the magic system that I want?

If not, can anyone recommend some "house rules" that will give me what I want? Or even better, a collection of GURPS rules that will get me close to what I want, and then just a few custom rules to get me the rest of the way there?

Thanks very much!

Joshua Levy
Running GURPS: Traveller
Working on my own GURPS: Mythic American Indian

[Christopher R. Rice]

I'd use Ritual Path Magic with Effect Shaping and totally disallow Ritual Adept (or at least reserve it for those with Big Medicine).

[Phantasm]

I'd use Path/Book from Thaumatology, using Paths of Protection, Elements, Nature, Cunning, Spirit, and Form, probably with Effect Shaping.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

I'd use Path/Book from Thaumatology, using Paths of Protection, Elements, Nature, Cunning, Spirit, and Form, probably with Effect Shaping.

Yes, absolutely this. The OP didn't even have a RPM book and its' improvisational flavor is probably wrong. With Path/Book Magic you've got rituals handed down over generations.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Yes, absolutely this. The OP didn't even have a RPM book and its' improvisational flavor is probably wrong. With Path/Book Magic you've got rituals handed down over generations.

Speaking as someone who has a fairly extensive background on the subject *he says drily* RPM is absolutely the best thing to simulate medicine. Many rituals and pleas are put together on the spot for specific circumstances. Sometimes you call on big spirits, sometimes small ones (all of this varies with the particular tribe you are talking about). The soul exception in my opinion is probably the Dine who have very specific rituals and when they should be used (e.g., the Blessingway, the Enemyway, etc.)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Speaking as someone who has a fairly extensive background on the subject *he says drily* RPM is absolutely the best thing to simulate medicine. Many rituals and pleas are put together on the spot for specific circumstances. Sometimes you call on big spirits, sometimes small ones (all of this varies with the particular tribe you are talking about). The soul exception in my opinion is probably the Dine who have very specific rituals and when they should be used (e.g., the Blessingway, the Enemyway, etc.)

The OP asked for _feel_ and not "reality" and he still doesn't have a RPM book.

Is there any "magic": problem you don't think RPM is the solution for?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The OP asked for _feel_ and not "reality" and he still doesn't have a RPM book.

And I was giving it as a member of the bloody Cherokee Nation (I've two different ancestors on the Dawes roll and everything) and sometimes apprentice to my grandfather who was a storyteller and elder. Every ceremony I've seen from perhaps two dozen tribes is nothing like what most folks imagine a "ritual" is. There are often two parts in most cases. The first is getting you into the right frame of mind. This can be done by singing, dancing, meditation, sweating, or using specific entheogens. the next part is where you ask, bribe, or otherwise petition a spirit to help. They're not omnipotent gods so sometimes you need to start all over again if you ask the wrong spirit for help. It's not that they don't want to help you - but that they can't.

The bigger the request or need the bigger the medicine required. That screams Effect-Shaping Ritual Path Magic to me.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Is there any "magic": problem you don't think RPM is the solution for?

Yes, Supers. Doesn't work to well there. Doesn't scale right. Ditto on fairytale magic which kind of requires there be some....absolutes is the word I'm looking for. The same could be said for some types of horror.

[joshualevy]

I looked at Ritual Path Magic (T72, M200 B242), and I must say that I don't understand how it impacts the areas I care about most: slower magic, group magic, etc. It seems to mostly be about spell selection. I do think it gives a more Mythic American Indian feel spell section, but that's a secondary (maybe even tertiary) issue for me.

On the other hand, I had not previously looked at Path/Book magic (T121). (Maybe because it was described as a variant of ritual magic or because the duration stuff was buried several pages in). In any case: that looks like much closer to what I want! It even has ideas of Combined Ceremonies and the Ritual Space stuff looks like a great addition.

So with that as a basis, can you guys give me any advice in actually running it? What are the experiences of the people who actually use it?

In terms of customizations:

• I might make the rituals even a little longer than they are now. Maybe twice as long.
• Intead of books, I would use epic poems, stories, or songs instead.

Anything else that people can think of?

Joshua

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by joshualevy

I looked at Ritual Path Magic (T72, M200 B242), and I must say that I don't understand how it impacts the areas I care about most: slower magic, group magic, etc. It seems to mostly be about spell selection. I do think it gives a more Mythic American Indian feel spell section, but that's a secondary (maybe even tertiary) issue for me.

None of those books have Ritual Path Magic. It comes from Monster Hunters originally. There is always a bit of confusion for folks not familiar with it.

[joshualevy]

Obviously I mixed up "ritual path magic" and "ritual magic". Sorry about that.

I guess I have two questions to everyone involved:

1. As I don't have the T:RPM book, can you tell me the important differences? I think I would generally prefer to have a spell list, rather than a "roll your own every time" magic system. That's is for playability reasons. I think that both players and GMs have a much easier time with a magic system, if it comes with a list of spells. Even if it is not quite as realistic. (And this is even more true for a magic system like native american, where there the players are not previously familiar with it.) But surely there must be other differences as well. I'm also interested in SJGames support. It looks like RPM might have more support and more recent support than Path/Book magic. Anyone care to comment on that?

2. For people who have used the Path/Book system (or the T:RPM system) in low tech, non-standard fantasy settings. How did they work? What were the problems and what were the strong points?

Thanks for all you help so far. I've appreciated all the comments that I have seen here. Even the comments I'm not using, I still benefit from them.

Joshua