[Basic/Powers] Ally group with average point value?

[Jerander]

Hi,

I would like to stat a group of Allies, whose membership is constantly changing, and whose members point total always average out to the point value specified at creation.

So, for example, a group of 6-10 bar patrons whose point value averages to 100-pts. Sometimes it'll be six 100-pointers, sometimes ten. Sometimes there'll be one person with 150-pts, two with 75-pts, and the rest with 100-pts.

Since the point values of groups is a range, I don't see a problem with varying the number of Allies within the group as it doesn't affect point cost. The varying NPC point values, though...How would you set that up?

Thank you,
Jerander.

[aesir23]

I feel like the harshest GM could require you to pay for the highest point total.

But I think it would be perfectly fair to simply charge you for the mean.

[the_matrix_walker]

Sounds like a Modular Ability (Social, Allies only) to me.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Sounds like a Modular Ability (Social, Allies only) to me.

Which, combined with "takes preparation" and other limitations, would be great to mimic a posse or (flash) mob.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Sounds like a Modular Ability (Social, Allies only) to me.

That's a good idea. Any way to randomize the numbers/point totals of the Allies? Would that be worth a discount?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Personally, for no extra cost I let the skills vary among a group if the norm for the group would be to have different roles filled. E.g. if your ally group is a marching band, they would have different Musical Instrument skills. Or if your group is a ship's crew, some would be riggers, some would be caulkers, what have you.

I've done that before, it's really the best way to do it, honestly. Rather than Ally (Rigger) x20, Ally (Cook) x2, and so on.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Sounds like a Modular Ability (Social, Allies only) to me.

...why? If it's the same group of people? It's making it way more complicated than it needs to be. Now if it's different beings every time, yeah, sure, that's the way to go. But modular abilities shouldn't be used for every woe due to inflexibility of a particular trait. That's my experience anyways, YMMV.

Originally Posted by Jerander

That's a good idea. Any way to randomize the numbers/point totals of the Allies? Would that be worth a discount?

No, that'd probably be a feature as long as when you roll for a "random" ally whom you can get the 150% as well as you can get the 25%. I'd probably price "Random Point Value" as around 5 points and then build a simple chart. Maybe something like: 1, 25%; 2, 50%, 3-4, 75%, 5 100%, and 6, 150%.

That said, in my own campaigns I allow character point dependent social traits (Allies, Dependents, and Enemies) to use the core point value if you have more than one NPC for that trait, and you want to vary it. Just figure out the separate point totals, average them, and go from there. For example, Dependents (Family) could include your wife at 100% your total character points and both your kids at 25% of your total and treat that disadvantage as if the value of a single dependent were 50% (times two for having more than two dependents, of course). It works out pretty well and declutters the character sheet some. When I need to figure out who got in trouble or is causing the issues, I just roll a die and go from there.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

...why? If it's the same group of people? It's making it way more complicated than it needs to be. Now if it's different beings every time, yeah, sure, that's the way to go. But modular abilities shouldn't be used for every woe due to inflexibility of a particular trait. That's my experience anyways, YMMV.

Because it's the only way to do it by the RAW. And I think it far to potentially useful to be hand-waved. (And isn't the whole point that they are not the exact same people?)

This is not an example of trait inflexibility IMHO, Ally Groups are very flexible!

Allies that do not use an identical character sheet must be purchased by adding their individual costs together before adding the multiplier for Frequency of Appearance. Since having a group of different Allies as an Ally Group is not prohibited, just priced differently, this is not a job for Cosmic (Remove inherent restriction).

If the options are few, you could buy different Ally groups as Alternative Abilities, but if they are pretty open ended, Modular Abilities seems obvious.

If hand-waving is more your taste, then going by average point value is also problematic. It would be fairer to base it on the highest possible value. Otherwise you may have a situation where you trade your ten 150 point allies for nine 100 point allies and their 600 point boss.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

...why? If it's the same group of people?

In my case, it won't be the same group of people. Random patrons in a bar turn into Allies. Some more useful than others. Different nights, different patrons.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

No, that'd probably be a feature as long as when you roll for a "random" ally whom you can get the 150% as well as you can get the 25%. I'd probably price "Random Point Value" as around 5 points and then build a simple chart. Maybe something like: 1, 25%; 2, 50%, 3-4, 75%, 5 100%, and 6, 150%.

What is the 5-pts for?

What I was thinking: Pay for an Ally Group of 6-10 people at an average of 100% PC point total. Then randomize based of that. Something along the lines of roll 1d to determine the number of Allies in the group (1, 6 allies; 2, 7 allies; 3-4, 8 allies; 5, 9 allies; 6, 10 allies), then roll 1d for each Ally: 1, 50%; 2, 75%; 3-4, 100%; 5, 125%, 6, 150%.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

That said, in my own campaigns I allow character point dependent social traits (Allies, Dependents, and Enemies) to use the core point value if you have more than one NPC for that trait, and you want to vary it. Just figure out the separate point totals, average them, and go from there. For example, Dependents (Family) could include your wife at 100% your total character points and both your kids at 25% of your total and treat that disadvantage as if the value of a single dependent were 50% (times two for having more than two dependents, of course). It works out pretty well and declutters the character sheet some. When I need to figure out who got in trouble or is causing the issues, I just roll a die and go from there.

This is kind of the effect I was going for, just with different people on different nights.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

If hand-waving is more your taste, then going by average point value is also problematic. It would be fairer to base it on the highest possible value. Otherwise you may have a situation where you trade your ten 150 point allies for nine 100 point allies and their 600 point boss.

Based on average point value is problematic? Even if it's random? How would it be fairer to base it on the highest? I don't quite understand what you're thinking...

What I'm thinking: walk into a bar, 6-10 of the patrons become your Allies. Those Allies won't change until you leave and reenter another (or the same) bar the next night. They cannot be changed out repeatedly until you get a good roll.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Because it's the only way to do it by the RAW. And I think it far to potentially useful to be hand-waved. (And isn't the whole point that they are not the exact same people?)

I think I'll have to fix that then... ;-)

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

This is not an example of trait inflexibility IMHO, Ally Groups are very flexible!

Ally Groups (and Ally in general) are useful as is, but they really ought to be expanded. Look at if each ally were a power. If each ally is basically foo power on setting X, then it's kind of like Alternate Powers, for a reduced cost in the price. Why not just say "Each Ally has all of X, but Brad has Y and X, Allice has X and Z, and so on." It seems way to complicated to just say "No, you have to pay for each ally you have even though maybe 20 points of their template is different." That's silly.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

If hand-waving is more your taste, then going by average point value is also problematic. It would be fairer to base it on the highest possible value. Otherwise you may have a situation where you trade your ten 150 point allies for nine 100 point allies and their 600 point boss.

I don't typically hand-wave. I create rules and use them. That's why I posted what I did (for the reasons I just posted above). As for your situational case, if even one of those allies dies you get no points that session and the whole group might abandon you at that point if you could have done something, but didn't. The first problem is RAW, the second...is how I'd play it as the GM.

Originally Posted by Jerander

In my case, it won't be the same group of people. Random patrons in a bar turn into Allies. Some more useful than others. Different nights, different patrons.

Then I'd call it a -5% or -10% Nuisance Effect on a Modular Ability Pool.

Originally Posted by Jerander

What is the 5-pts for?

Average of all Ally values from 25% to 150% is 4.2 points, or 5 points.

Originally Posted by Jerander

What I was thinking: Pay for an Ally Group of 6-10 people at an average of 100% PC point total. Then randomize based of that. Something along the lines of roll 1d to determine the number of Allies in the group (1, 6 allies; 2, 7 allies; 3-4, 8 allies; 5, 9 allies; 6, 10 allies), then roll 1d for each Ally: 1, 50%; 2, 75%; 3-4, 100%; 5, 125%, 6, 150%.

That's workable.