08-02-2017, 11:11 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2017
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The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
Having recently returned to tabletop gaming, specifically as a GM for the GURPS system, I've been wracking my brain over the muddled mess that is detecting magic and identifying spells and magical effects and all of the various ways it can be accomplished. On top of that, I see that the 4th Edition has done nothing to make it any easier or even streamlined it in any way either.
So lets get right into the mess and see if anyone else has issue with it and some explanations about it all, because I just cannot make any sense of it. Magery 0+: (Basic pg. 66) ...The GM makes a Sense roll (p. 358) when you first see a magic item, and again when you first touch it. On a success, you intuitively know that the item is magical. Add your Magery level to Perception when you roll to sense magic items.
Detect Magic: (Magic pg. 101) Determines whether any one object is magical. If the spell is successful, a second casting tells whether the magic is temporary or permanent. A critical success on either roll fully identifies the spell, as for Analyze Magic. This is not the same as the ability to detect magic items that comes with Magery 0; that ability only detects permanent magic items, while Detect Magic detects items, spells, magical creatures, and any other ongoing magical effect.
Identify Magic: (Magic pg. 102) Identifies what spell or spells have just been cast (within the last five seconds), or are being cast at the moment, on or by the subject. It does not identify the spells on a permanently enchanted item. One casting identifies all spells cast on or by the subject. However, if any of these spells are totally unknown to the caster – not just spells he doesn’t know, but spells he has never heard of – the GM should provide only a vague description...
Analyze Magic: (Magic pg. 102) Identifies exactly what spells are on the subject. If the subject has more than one spell on it, Analyze Magic identifies the one that took the least energy, and tells the caster “there are more spells.” It can then be cast again to determine the next spell, and so on. Name and Password enchantments (p. 68) count as separate spells that resist at +5; any individual wizard may only attempt to Analyze a Name or Password once. Like Identify Spell, above, it will give limited results when the caster is faced with an unknown spell.
I just do NOT know what to do with any of this drek. On the one hand, each thing (advantage or spell) gives specific information on exactly WHAT it can do and how it can do it. On the other hand, each thing is extremely limited in just what it CAN do, and in some cases, prompts the GM to be as VAGUE as possible and even when a player combines ALL of these things together, trying to figure out what a magic item can ACTUALLY do, may result in them throwing a book at the GM because in the end they STILL cannot figure it out. Not to mention the amount of time that must be invested and the amount of FP that will need to be spent, with NO guarantee at any amount of success. Is anyone else finding that these rules for players identifying magic items in a timely manner is just to convoluted, time consuming, and expensive? I'm seriously considering just getting rid of Detect Magic, Identify Magic, AND Analyze Magic and creating one simple spell that covers all three spells. One that ISN'T confusing or vague, and allows the players to quickly figure out what a magic item does, put it to good use, and move on. The only other option is to let the rules stand as they are, increasing my frustration in dealing with magic items and the chance that I'll have a book thrown at my head, and increasing the frustration and confusion of the players themselves. There is one more option I suppose: Do not give my players ANY magic items at all... Does anyone have any good explanations of all of these items or some reasoning behind it all that will clear up confusion? Perhaps some home brew solutions of your own that you created to solve these problems and make it more streamlined? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Side Note: This is my first post and I haven't found any posts yet discussing this. If there ARE posts that address this, please feel free to add some links for me. Thank you! |
08-03-2017, 01:04 AM | #2 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
Quote:
There's also a Detect advantage (Basic set, page 48), which if you take it as Detect (Magic) detects magic of any kind, including temporary items, and ongoing spells.
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
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08-03-2017, 01:26 AM | #3 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
Quote:
Identify Magic is, indeed, a spell for pretty specific circumstances, and I've never seen it used. Analyse Magic gets used a lot, but not in combat, or when under time pressure. GURPS magicians recover fatigue points fairly quickly, and get reductions in spell costs for high skill; their resource management is different from most games.
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
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08-03-2017, 12:03 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
Identify Magic is (in my mind) primarily a combat spell. Consider the heritage of GURPS back to Melee and Wizard. You don't always know what spell an opponent is casting (even though in most games, players just name them, they shouldn't really act on that knowledge). But sometimes it would be useful to know what defense an enemy just created, or what ensorcelment they just inflicted, so that you can properly counter it.
The bit about spells known is simply to reflect the advantage of a trained mage with broad base of knowledge and experience in recognizing magical effects, as opposed to a Johnny One-Spell. Breadth and study helps. If you have no clue about entire areas of magic, then casting a spell that gives you details isn't going to help you, any more than would reading the source code to a desktop app when you're not a programmer would teach you how to use that app. (There are, of course, settings in which magical isn't studied, but is some sort of innate magical talent. For those, you might well alter the rule (and others) to better reflect the way that setting works.) |
08-03-2017, 12:07 PM | #5 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
I see Thaumatology (the skill) being more useful than Identity Magic, in most cases though.
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08-03-2017, 12:43 PM | #6 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
Quote:
I penalize attempts to analyze magics that have no witnessable effects (a further -10, however witnessable effects reduce this penalty to, up to -0 for immediately obvious effects). This makes Identify Spell invaluable as a combat intelligence gathering tool. |
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08-03-2017, 12:45 PM | #7 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
That seems like a hard sell for Create Fire or Lightning or whatever...
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08-03-2017, 12:49 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
Quote:
Presumably these examples come with a significant bonus, if you even require a roll.
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“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius |
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08-03-2017, 01:01 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
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08-03-2017, 01:14 PM | #10 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: The Confusion of Detecting Magic and Items
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