Spell Techniques

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

At any point where you'd consider buying up the technique it would be better to invent a new spell.

Although I disagree generally with that statement, I think your partially right in this case. So instead, lets say....

Luge / Linear Grease - Movement College

Area (Special)

Duration: 10 minutes
Base Cost: 3 per 3yd x 1yd linear track, Same to Maintain
Pre-Requisite: Grease, Magery 1

This spell allows the caster to create a slick line 3 yards long and one yard wide for each 3 mana invested. The normal effects for grease apply.

For more utility the GM may allow the Mage (or anyone) to make a Hobby Skill (Skate Boarding) or a DX -4 roll to slide upright down the length of the trail. +6 for Perfect Balance (For a net bonus of +2). If its on an incline, others may slide on their knees or backs at no penalty.

For level sliding, Treat the casters move as constant along the path at whatever move he had acquired when intiating the slide. For inclined sliding, add 1/2 the falling velocity for up to 30 degree inclines, and 3/4 for a 31-60 degree incline to the casters initial velocity. ANything over 60, treat as vertical. Optionally, use the rules for the Slide spell.

Nymdok

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

Although I disagree generally with that statement, I think your partially right in this case. So instead, lets say....

Snail Trail / Luge / Slip n' Slide - Movement College

Area (Special)

Duration: 10 minutes
Base Cost: 3 per 3yd x 1yd linear track, Same to Maintain
Pre-Requisite: Grease, Magery 1

This spell allows the caster to create a slick line 3 yards long and one yard wide for each 3 mana invested. The normal effects for grease apply.

For more utility the GM may allow the Mage (or anyone) to make a Hobby Skill (Skate Boarding) or a DX -4 roll to slide upright down the length of the trail. +6 for Perfect Balance (For a net bonus of +2). If its on an incline, others may slide on their knees or backs at no penalty.

For level sliding, Treat the casters move as constant along the path at whatever move he had acquired when intiating the slide. For inclined sliding, add 1/2 the falling velocity for up to 30 degree inclines, and 3/4 for a 31-60 degree incline to the casters initial velocity. ANything over 60, treat as vertical. Optionally, use the rules for the Skiing spell.

Nymdok

One, why do you disagree that spending 1 cp to learn a new spell at IQ+Magery-2 (-3 if VH) is preferable to spending 1 cp on buying off a penalty to another spell? Even if it was only a -1 Average technique you've done no more than break even.

Two, I think you mean the "Slide" spell (on p.145 of Magic) rather than a "Skiing" spell.

Three, I do not see what your Snail Trail spell does that the Grease spell does not. You can shape Area Spells into linear paths if you want. It just includes language about using Skills and Skill techniques to cope with the effects.

[Kazander]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

One, why do you disagree that spending 1 cp to learn a new spell at IQ+Magery-2 (-3 if VH) is preferable to spending 1 cp on buying off a penalty to another spell? Even if it was only a -1 Average technique you've done no more than break even.

I can't speak for Nymdok, but from my perspective and IMC, new spells require research, a teacher that already knows it, or another learning resource. Techniques are things you already know and I allow to be freely bought up in levels.

Research generally takes place on a time scale that a player is not happy to devote. I don't allow players to drop a point into a new skill without justifying it and accounting for time learning it. It prevents skill dilution, jack-of-all-trades, and encourages niche-protection.

YMMV.

From a pure metagaming perspective, if you're allowed to make up your own spells, of course it's cheaper to spend a point to learn a new spell. Not everyone allows this though.

[Anders]

Exactly. Remember that the "Explosive" technique replaces Explosive Fireball, etc. Explosive Fireball is not available.

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

One, why do you disagree that spending 1 cp to learn a new spell at IQ+Magery-2 (-3 if VH) is preferable to spending 1 cp on buying off a penalty to another spell? Even if it was only a -1 Average technique you've done no more than break even.

Two, I think you mean the "Slide" spell (on p.145 of Magic) rather than a "Skiing" spell.

Three, I do not see what your Snail Trail spell does that the Grease spell does not. You can shape Area Spells into linear paths if you want. It just includes language about using Skills and Skill techniques to cope with the effects.

SOrry, I hit the submit button about 3am and didnt finish that thought.

1. Notice that it went from Magery 0 to Magery 1. A technique off of the Grease spell wouldn't have that limitation. As another example, if you had magery 0 and wanted Fireball, you could add a ranged enhancement to flame jet. You'd pay for it of course, it would be difficult and cost more Fatigue, but it would at least be a way around the Magery 1 limitation. Going the otherway, If you knew Fireball, could you add melee limitations to it that might do more damge (say 1d+1) but would only be knowable by those who have at least Magery 1. Also, as Kazander noted, its something you can learn without being taught.

2. Your right, I meant slide :) So Noted, So Changed. Also, calling something snail trail thats meant to increase your move I now see is misleading. I think Ill just call it Luge....or maybe skate.

3. The spell should be cheaper than grease. I dont have my books infront of me, but to get a 3 yard length area spell and then "turn off" the hexes that arent in a straight line would be 6 mana.

Techniques for the Luge spell might included a reduced time variant (say it only lasts 20 seconds ) but would extend the footage you get to say 6 hexes per 3 mana you put into it.

The problem is that Im not sure how to build that variant as a technique. While we're on the topic, Im also not sure how to price prerequisite count and Magery as limitations.

Reduced time is easy to figure at 1/30 for -30%, but how much of a discount in mana does that equate to?

What if instead, we just took a straight -4 penalty to skill, that we could offset with a technique investment? What would that do to the cost?

Nymdok

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Exactly. Remember that the "Explosive" technique replaces Explosive Fireball, etc. Explosive Fireball is not available.

I dont know how well that rule sits with me just yet. the Plus 50% for explosive means -10 skill + 10 Mana and that is steep. But if you didnt KNOW the spell already, it might be a handy 'desperation' or 'Hail Mary' kind of option. I dont know that the existence of the technique should preclude the other spell.

Nymdok

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Exactly. Remember that the "Explosive" technique replaces Explosive Fireball, etc. Explosive Fireball is not available.

...then I wouldn't bother.

The diminishing effect for explosions already means you're unlikely to do more than 2 points of damage to people more than a hex from the target. If I told a player he had to take a -10 penalty and spend 10 fatigue for that he'd think I didn't want explosive fireballs in my game. And he'd have a point, as the cost and skill penalty are wildly out of line with the effect generated.

[Kazander]

The primary effect of an Explosive enhancement is not that it does damage to additional targets, but rather that it's very difficult for the primary target to avoid. You get +4 to hit, and the target has to Dodge-and-Drop to even minimize the damage--leaving him prone and potentially vulnerable for at least 1 Turn.

Your dodge-monkey with Enhanced Dodge 3 and Acrobatics is still going to get nailed, whereas he would typically avoid any non-explosive missile attack.

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by Kazander

Your dodge-monkey with Enhanced Dodge 3 and Acrobatics is still going to get nailed, whereas he would typically avoid any non-explosive missile attack.

It would be significantly more effective in terms of both points and fatigue to learn Rooted Feet and Rain of Fire or Cloud of Fire (if the fire theme is required*) to hose the dodge-monkeys than to spend enough points on the technique and extra fatigue to get it to a reliable level.


*altho my characters would probably just hit the dodge-monkey with Tickle and have one of the meat-shields run them through while they're twitching on the floor.

[Kazander]

Well, that would be why (1) I halve the FP costs for Spell Techniques, and (2) Combining spells can take longer. Rooted Feet is over by the time you can get Rain of Fire off (It takes 1 minute), and Fire cloud Takes at least 3 turns to be cast at an effective level. Even half DR (all that is effective against Area Attacks, for Low Tech armor) is usually at least 2 points. And Rooted Feet is hardly guaranteed; just because he's a dodge monkey doesn't mean he's too weak to resist this spell.

In the meantime you have to worry about the other bad guys smacking you around....

RF also doesn't work for wizards without access to the Body Control college, or against opponents that are immune to it, like Undead and Constructs. Ditto for Tickle.

Spell Techniques aren't perfect, and aren't the solution for every situation, but they can make a big difference to a wizard who needs a certain variation on a spell now.