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Old 11-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #31
Tzeentch
 
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

If you want more academic citations regarding armor, also see
http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/n...jsp?cid=408088
which refers to:

Limitations imposed by wearing armour on Medieval soldiers' locomotor performance
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...1729/640.short

Also of interest:
Human locomotion on snow: determinants of economy and speed of skiing across the ages
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...572/1561.short
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Unfortunately, that study has been very strongly criticized on two grounds: the armour was too heavy and not properly fitted. Its frustrating because it had a lot of potential if they had done it better!

In the period that the OP deals with, the only leg armour was maille leggings or the skirts of the body armour, and there were very few enclosed helmets or rigid body armours.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
If you want realistic rules then get rid of the myth that armour is stifling in hot weather. Replace it with a rule that covers enclosed helmets and decouple it completely from the outside temperature. At the Battle of Towton knights were collapsing from the stifling effects of their helmets even though they were fighting in a snowstorm.

Any further elaboration on this and how it relates to the 4ed RAW?
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
If you want realistic rules then get rid of the myth that armour is stifling in hot weather.
Most armor (with mail as a notable exception) is padded and doesn't let much air pass through it. How is that not going to cause you to be swimming in sweat after a while?
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Unfortunately, that study has been very strongly criticized on two grounds: the armour was too heavy and not properly fitted. Its frustrating because it had a lot of potential if they had done it better!
-- I assume it's been mainly criticized by the reenactor community? If so, shouldn't they be working harder to create more rigorous experiments or working with those that do? What's stopping them from working with a university to replicate this experiment with more historically accurate armor and fittings?
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Most armor (with mail as a notable exception) is padded and doesn't let much air pass through it. How is that not going to cause you to be swimming in sweat after a while?
All armour has this problem, not just heavy armour, and the effects are no different to wearing heavy clothing.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch View Post
-- I assume it's been mainly criticized by the reenactor community? If so, shouldn't they be working harder to create more rigorous experiments or working with those that do? What's stopping them from working with a university to replicate this experiment with more historically accurate armor and fittings?
The main problem with that study is that they didn't control for the possibility that the chest armour restricted breathing. The increased energy expenditure may have had nothing at all to do with whether the legs were armoured or not.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch View Post
-- I assume it's been mainly criticized by the reenactor community? If so, shouldn't they be working harder to create more rigorous experiments or working with those that do? What's stopping them from working with a university to replicate this experiment with more historically accurate armor and fittings?
Well, its been criticized by the community of people who wear and study armour, most of whom are involved in at least one of living history, reenactment, historical martial arts, or mock combat with historical kit. The barriers to studies like this are that very few people study arms and armour at universities, that not all of those are interested in getting advice from people without a PhD or know where to find it, that few experts outside the academy live close to the right university, that money is very short in the humanities, and that human-subject-research guidelines aimed at preventing the next Milligram Experiment or Tuskeegee Siphilis Experiment often make it very hard for humanists to experiment with arms and armour.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:13 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
All armour has this problem, not just heavy armour, and the effects are no different to wearing heavy clothing.
Saying "all armour is stifling in hot weather" wouldn't bother me, but your claim seemed to be "armour is not stifling in hot weather".
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Crusades; Light Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
The main problem with that study is that they didn't control for the possibility that the chest armour restricted breathing. The increased energy expenditure may have had nothing at all to do with whether the legs were armoured or not.
-- This all appears to be addressed in the results and discussion. Do you mean that they didn't record relative chest compression by armor type? The paper itself notes that the increased energy expenditure isn't accounted for just by the leg armor.

-- Looks like a simple enough experiment to replicate. Look forward to seeing more of them.
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