The Crusades; Light Armor.

Blood Legend · 10-17-2012, 03:43 PM

So I'm playing in a game in which I'm basically down to silk cloth because everything else is environmentally suicidal.

Um.

I think...that's about it. I need help keeping my DR up in a desert.

Mail is way to heavy. Plate doesn't currently exist/is otherwise unavailable.

Bruno · 10-17-2012, 03:58 PM

Don't fight in the daytime. Don't fight at noon. Don't fight in the desert :)

Middle-eastern nations went up to armor as heavy as scale, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't in the Sahara or something. There's desert, and then there's desert after all :)

jason taylor · 10-17-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

So I'm playing in a game in which I'm basically down to silk cloth because everything else is environmentally suicidal.

Um.

I think...that's about it. I need help keeping my DR up in a desert.

What does that have to do with the crusades? People can fight in the Middle East while encased in armor. The crusaders did; for that matter tankers did in WWII and the Arab-Israeli wars, and not all tanks have air conditioning.

Are you talking about a crusade on a different planet?

Blood Legend · 10-17-2012, 04:13 PM

I'm playing in a game in which the GM uses all applicable environmental rules he can find. As well as a weather table that tells him what the day was like x number of years ago. So the weather and heat and everything else is actually specific to the actual day in history. I'm not familiar with the middle east. What I know of the holy land is that it has a lot of sun and a lot of sand and not a whole lot of anything else, and wearing armor is slowly killing me. It's the middle of the 13th century, and even if it was invented, plate mail isn't nearly as widespread as I'd like it to be. A helmet, surcoat, light mail, a shield, shortsword, crossbow, a quiver with bolts and water are putting me in a fair bit of encumbrance. My and my NPC comrades only have about ST 12-14, and the characters made are fairly realistic. Most of us are going at move 3, no dodge, crappy armor, and an enemy with mostly superior (but not extremely better) hand weapons.

How did history deal with this? How did our more armored crusaders deal with this dilemma? Or was it a straight cut decision between armor or consciousness? If it helps, I believe I'm in the second crusade.

Anthony · 10-17-2012, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

So I'm playing in a game in which I'm basically down to silk cloth because everything else is environmentally suicidal.

When it's hot, put your armor on a pack animal and only put it on when you need it. Also, not everywhere in Israel is desert.

Blood Legend · 10-17-2012, 04:54 PM

That leaves the problem that I'm basically unarmored in any situation besides a planned siege, and currently why I mentioned I'm just down to cloth armor most of the time. As a player character, I'm attacked a bit more often than normal. Most scuffles will be over before I can put my armor on.

Anthony · 10-17-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

That leaves the problem that I'm basically unarmored in any situation besides a planned siege, and currently why I mentioned I'm just down to cloth armor most of the time. As a player character, I'm attacked a bit more often than normal. Most scuffles will be over before I can put my armor on.

Being unarmored outside of a planned fight is not precisely rare, but you should be able to handle partial armor; I'm not familiar enough with the GURPS rules on heat and fatigue. Incidentally, are you using Basic set armor or Low-Tech? Mail is sort of the recommended armor type here.

Blood Legend · 10-17-2012, 05:16 PM

Low-Tech is included, but it points to basic for armor fatigue. The mail bit doesn't help as much as I'd like it to, or at all really. The FP I keep from avoiding plate is lost on the additional weight of the mail. Then there's the FP lost from dehydration. My troop's base move of 3 turns into 1 very quickly, with hardly any dodge or attack power, I'm not doing so hot (no pun intended, is there a pun? I'm not sure now...)

I've been avoiding extreme heat by wandering around in the dark, but realistic human night vision is only 2, torches make stealth impossible, and the light levels are commonly -5. With realistic skills around 14 and 16, it's hardly feesable. I'm either exhausted or blind.

My GM isn't unfair, but I've yet to find plate armor. I've got a medium plate pot helm for head protection and it's doing me fine for head blows (protect what's important!) and I figure I'd supplement with a front only torso curaiss, but haven't found one for purchase, nor an armorer who isn't busy with an order from someone more important, who may also be on limited supplies. I'm hoping for some kind of trick of experience to keep me going until I do.

~~combatmedic~~ · 10-17-2012, 05:22 PM

I tramped around Iraq (only part of which is desert, but most of which gets really hot in the warm months) in a vehicle with no AC in the front compartment (nothing that worked well, anyway) and on foot. I was wearing full uniform, helmet, and body armor. I carried extra weight-- my aid bag. I was fine, despite being uncomfortable part of the time(it got better, and the heat isn't high all year). You can acclimatize and take precautions to avoid heat injuries.

Drink a lot of water. Don't be a goofball and run around in the hot sun when you don't need to do so. Rest often. Get in the shade when you can.

The insurgents didn’t like to fight in the noontime sun, either. They weren’t that stupid.

Substantial parts of the Holy Land actually have a milder climate than places I campaigned. Look at pictures of Syria and Palestine. There are greenbelts, light woods, high hills, etc. It’s not a vast baking desert.

Blood Legend · 10-17-2012, 05:33 PM

The area I'm in is near Kerak, but the temperatures 'this day x years ago' is usually 75 low at night and 110 during the day. I've gotta manage my own water and it's definitely a commodity being strictly tracked when I'm between fortresses. How cold and dark does it usually get over there? Is it like this all the time or am I in a heat wave.

10-17-2012, 03:43 PM	#1
Blood Legend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Fine Line Between Black and White	The Crusades; Light Armor. So I'm playing in a game in which I'm basically down to silk cloth because everything else is environmentally suicidal. Um. I think...that's about it. I need help keeping my DR up in a desert. Mail is way to heavy. Plate doesn't currently exist/is otherwise unavailable. __________________ . ( )( ) -This is The Overlord Bunny o(O.o)o -Master of Bunnies O('')('') -And Destroyer of the Hasenpfeffer "This is the sort of relatively small error that destroys planetary probes." ~Bruno Last edited by Blood Legend; 10-17-2012 at 03:57 PM.

10-17-2012, 03:58 PM	#2
Bruno Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada	Re: The Crusades; Light Armor. Don't fight in the daytime. Don't fight at noon. Don't fight in the desert :) Middle-eastern nations went up to armor as heavy as scale, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't in the Sahara or something. There's desert, and then there's desert after all :) __________________ All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table A Wiki for my F2F Group A neglected GURPS blog

10-17-2012, 04:13 PM	#4
Blood Legend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Fine Line Between Black and White	Re: The Crusades; Light Armor. I'm playing in a game in which the GM uses all applicable environmental rules he can find. As well as a weather table that tells him what the day was like x number of years ago. So the weather and heat and everything else is actually specific to the actual day in history. I'm not familiar with the middle east. What I know of the holy land is that it has a lot of sun and a lot of sand and not a whole lot of anything else, and wearing armor is slowly killing me. It's the middle of the 13th century, and even if it was invented, plate mail isn't nearly as widespread as I'd like it to be. A helmet, surcoat, light mail, a shield, shortsword, crossbow, a quiver with bolts and water are putting me in a fair bit of encumbrance. My and my NPC comrades only have about ST 12-14, and the characters made are fairly realistic. Most of us are going at move 3, no dodge, crappy armor, and an enemy with mostly superior (but not extremely better) hand weapons. How did history deal with this? How did our more armored crusaders deal with this dilemma? Or was it a straight cut decision between armor or consciousness? If it helps, I believe I'm in the second crusade. __________________ . ( )( ) -This is The Overlord Bunny o(O.o)o -Master of Bunnies O('')('') -And Destroyer of the Hasenpfeffer "This is the sort of relatively small error that destroys planetary probes." ~Bruno Last edited by Blood Legend; 10-17-2012 at 04:58 PM.

10-17-2012, 04:54 PM	#6
Blood Legend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Fine Line Between Black and White	Re: The Crusades; Light Armor. That leaves the problem that I'm basically unarmored in any situation besides a planned siege, and currently why I mentioned I'm just down to cloth armor most of the time. As a player character, I'm attacked a bit more often than normal. Most scuffles will be over before I can put my armor on. __________________ . ( )( ) -This is The Overlord Bunny o(O.o)o -Master of Bunnies O('')('') -And Destroyer of the Hasenpfeffer "This is the sort of relatively small error that destroys planetary probes." ~Bruno Last edited by Blood Legend; 10-17-2012 at 05:00 PM.

10-17-2012, 05:16 PM	#8
Blood Legend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Fine Line Between Black and White	Re: The Crusades; Light Armor. Low-Tech is included, but it points to basic for armor fatigue. The mail bit doesn't help as much as I'd like it to, or at all really. The FP I keep from avoiding plate is lost on the additional weight of the mail. Then there's the FP lost from dehydration. My troop's base move of 3 turns into 1 very quickly, with hardly any dodge or attack power, I'm not doing so hot (no pun intended, is there a pun? I'm not sure now...) I've been avoiding extreme heat by wandering around in the dark, but realistic human night vision is only 2, torches make stealth impossible, and the light levels are commonly -5. With realistic skills around 14 and 16, it's hardly feesable. I'm either exhausted or blind. My GM isn't unfair, but I've yet to find plate armor. I've got a medium plate pot helm for head protection and it's doing me fine for head blows (protect what's important!) and I figure I'd supplement with a front only torso curaiss, but haven't found one for purchase, nor an armorer who isn't busy with an order from someone more important, who may also be on limited supplies. I'm hoping for some kind of trick of experience to keep me going until I do. __________________ . ( )( ) -This is The Overlord Bunny o(O.o)o -Master of Bunnies O('')('') -And Destroyer of the Hasenpfeffer "This is the sort of relatively small error that destroys planetary probes." ~Bruno Last edited by Blood Legend; 10-17-2012 at 05:39 PM.

10-17-2012, 05:22 PM	#9
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: The Crusades; Light Armor. I tramped around Iraq (only part of which is desert, but most of which gets really hot in the warm months) in a vehicle with no AC in the front compartment (nothing that worked well, anyway) and on foot. I was wearing full uniform, helmet, and body armor. I carried extra weight-- my aid bag. I was fine, despite being uncomfortable part of the time(it got better, and the heat isn't high all year). You can acclimatize and take precautions to avoid heat injuries. Drink a lot of water. Don't be a goofball and run around in the hot sun when you don't need to do so. Rest often. Get in the shade when you can. The insurgents didn’t like to fight in the noontime sun, either. They weren’t that stupid. Substantial parts of the Holy Land actually have a milder climate than places I campaigned. Look at pictures of Syria and Palestine. There are greenbelts, light woods, high hills, etc. It’s not a vast baking desert. Last edited by combatmedic; 10-17-2012 at 05:26 PM.

10-17-2012, 05:33 PM	#10
Blood Legend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Fine Line Between Black and White	Re: The Crusades; Light Armor. The area I'm in is near Kerak, but the temperatures 'this day x years ago' is usually 75 low at night and 110 during the day. I've gotta manage my own water and it's definitely a commodity being strictly tracked when I'm between fortresses. How cold and dark does it usually get over there? Is it like this all the time or am I in a heat wave. __________________ . ( )( ) -This is The Overlord Bunny o(O.o)o -Master of Bunnies O('')('') -And Destroyer of the Hasenpfeffer "This is the sort of relatively small error that destroys planetary probes." ~Bruno Last edited by Blood Legend; 10-17-2012 at 05:37 PM.