06-06-2017, 05:08 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#44): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
Previous Week: Dominance, Infectious Attack, Slave Mentality
Next Week: Duplication If you need help finding something we've already discussed, johndallman is maintaining an index of which traits we've discussed. Basic Both of today's traits are found in GURPS Lite, so I'm comfortable using a direct quote:Quote:
Other Supplements In GURPS Powers, Flexibility and Double-Jointed don't get their own updated entries, but like most traits, they are still referenced and used. You'll get some ideas for what traits to combine with them, what not to mistake for them, etc. The only other supplement I have that mentions them is GURPS Update, so if you've got something else, let me know! Otherwise, it is time to move onto the next section. Past Editions Double-Jointed used to be Flexibility and Flexibility used to be Double-Jointed. The Advantage Conversion Table on p.4-6 of GURPS Update shows this in simplified form, with an asterisk that is supposed to indicate a description below that explains, but I never found one. GURPS Basic Set Third Edition features Double-Jointed on p. 20. The text is a less detailed version of the entry for Flexibility given in GURPS Lite, and it still costs 5 CP. As for Third Edition Flexibility, it appears to have been introduced in (Third Edition compatible) GURPS Supers on page 40. I can read it on page 56 of Compendium I, where it is listed in the Racial and Super Advantages Chapter. Again, it is just a less detailed version of the entry for Fourth Edition Double-Jointed, though its text does remind us we cannot take it alongside Third Edition Double Jointed and that it is included in Third Edition Stretching. It is still priced at 15 CP. There is an additional, related trait in Third Edition called "Extra Flexibility". It found on GURPS Supers (for Third Edition) page 75, and on Compendium I page 55, meaning it is also a Racial and/or Super Advantage by default. This trait was designed to reflect arms that are extra flexible when compared to normal human limbs. The text emphasizes your arms being able to work together so long as they can reach each other, regardless of the character's position. This was priced at 5 CP for a single limb (an elephant's trunk is given as an example) or 10 for entire creatures. GURPS Update explains that this has now become an Enhancement you may take when purchasing Extra Arms, or you may pay 5 CP per limb if you want to modify any of your default arms (p. B53). I am curious as to why the names were changed and why the more extreme version of the trait seems to have been downgraded to "mundane". Edit: Already answered; please see the discussion below. :) Useful Links As always, feel free to suggestion additions to this section. :)
Discussion Starters This is (usually) a generic list of questions for those who feel they need them. Already know what you want to say? Go ahead and skip these. ;)
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) Last edited by Otaku; 07-13-2017 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Added Extra Flexibility |
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06-06-2017, 05:59 PM | #2 | |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
Quote:
And, once they had that decision, it was easier to declare the high level version to be double-jointed, rather than having "realistic" double-jointed be +3 and invent a +1 or +2 version for less extreme flexibility (like a perk named "Limber" or something) as that would require making a new name for the highest level. Plainly, "Flexible" doesn't sound as extreme as "Double-Jointed" does. It'd be like calling Unfazeable "Bravery" while leaving "Fearlessness" as the +1 to resist fear. Build dungeon thieves! +3 to two great skills, nearly the core of the template, for 5 points or the slightly less great deal of +5 to both for 15. Erotic Art skill bonus is basically irrelevant but I guess if your games swing that way it's nothing to shake a stick at.
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06-06-2017, 06:41 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
I have sometimes wanted to buy Flexibility or Double-Jointed for a rubber-jointed grappler type like Eddie Bravo who ties both themselves and their opponents in knots, but it's never offered enough for grapplers to make it worthwhile, when +3 to escape from pins only is competing with +1.25 to the whole Judo skill, and +5 to escape from pins is competing with +3.75 to the whole Judo skill. Maybe if it offered some kind of defensive benefit against joint locks?
EDIT: And checking my copy of Martial Arts, they actually do- it's not just to escape from pins, it's rolls to escape any joint-locking technique. Whoops. That makes the first level potentially worth it, at least. Last edited by Toptomcat; 06-06-2017 at 07:00 PM. |
06-06-2017, 09:12 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
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06-06-2017, 11:20 PM | #5 | |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
Quote:
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06-07-2017, 12:15 AM | #6 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
I've only ever heard double jointed used to refer to hyper mobility, not slightly more flexible than average.
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06-07-2017, 08:39 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
I am making a change to the "Previous Editions" section because there was a related trait I really ought to have included: Extra Flexibility. This trait is also found on GURPS Supers (for Third Edition) page 75, and on Compendium I page 55, meaning it is a Racial and/or Super Advantage by default. This trait was designed to reflect arms that are extra flexible when compared to normal human limbs. The text emphasizes them being able to work together so long as they can reach each other, regardless of the character's position.
This was priced at 5 CP for a single limb (an elephant's trunk is given as an example) or 10 for entire creatures. GURPS Update explains that this has now become an Enhancement you may take when purchasing Extra Arms, or you may pay 5 CP per limb if you want to modify any of your default arms (p. B53).
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
06-07-2017, 08:57 AM | #8 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
Quote:
Either is fine, I just can't tell for sure. Re-reading my own previous post, I probably shouldn't have continued on from my initial point: local language usage of the terms where I lived reflected the Third Edition relationship, and since I do not doubt you, that means I now realize it can vary from place to place. I may even be part of a scant minority. ^^' Quote:
Okay, so I too have not heard double-jointed used to refer to someone slightly more flexible than average. My point was that if we are going to use "double-jointed" to refer to one of the two GURPS traits involving increased flexibility, I'd use it as the lesser of the two because I associate it with stupid human tricks. If I were designing a GURPS trait based on it, it would be a zero-point feature because it will rarely be useful other than maybe getting a laugh, and could just as easily disgust the viewer. I had some ideas for a Perk with it, but that requires getting into some of the discussions you'll find in the links section, and have run out of time for making this comment. Oh, and as a general point; contortionists (both real world and in GURPS) don't have to be double-jointed (or have Double-Jointed). I'd recommend having those traits if you were scratch building your character (or considering careers/hobbies in the real world), but they are not required. Even in GURPS: if you suddenly had to pose as a contortionist, you'd have to sink a lot of points into the correct Skills, but it could be done.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
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06-07-2017, 06:56 PM | #9 |
Untagged
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
I've heard that most contortionists lacking joint disorders causing hyper mobility are either lower body benders or upper body benders.
Being both is very rare. I agree that hyper mobility is a nice term that explains without including all the baggage of double jointed and vagueness of flexibility.
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Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check. |
06-08-2017, 12:12 AM | #10 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#42): Double-Jointed, Flexibility
I've used this on one character, Togo Watanabe, a Japanese-American private investigator in a Crimson Skies game. He was a very physical type, with high ST and DX, and a martial art as a wildcard skill. Flexibility was mostly a skill booster for him.
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advantage, advantage of the week, double-jointed, flexibility, week, [basic] |
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