Intracranical Explosive Charge

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This is certainly a bigger Disadvantage than anything that threatens you with a civil judgment or a fine or even imprisonment.

That's what the Involuntary modifier covers. Fines or jail if you don't do it is an ordinary Duty - it's the more severe consequences (in this case your head explodes) that qualify you for that extra -5 points.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You're still ignoring differences between legally enforceable Duties with much less severe consequences and this (probably illegally but very practically enforceable)Duty with its' fatal consequences.

Have you read the Duty definition recently?

"Involuntary: Your Duty is enforced by threats to you or your loved ones, or is imposed by exotic mind control, a curse, etc."

Legally enforceable duties with much less severe consequences are not that.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I don't think that's reasonable. There's an Extreme Hazard there but you seem to me to be saying it's some place where it doesn't count.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. An extreme hazard that follows when you abrogate your duty rather than being in the line of duty makes the disadvantage Involuntary, not Extremely Hazardous.

Involuntary and Extremely Hazardous are both -5 point adds which explicitly can stack...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Have you read the Duty definition recently?

"Involuntary: Your Duty is enforced by threats to you or your loved ones, or is imposed by exotic mind control, a curse, etc."

Legally enforceable duties with much less severe consequences are not that.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. An extreme hazard that follows when you abrogate your duty rather than being in the line of duty makes the disadvantage Involuntary, not Extremely Hazardous.

Involuntary and Extremely Hazardous are both -5 point adds which explicitly can stack...

What if say Kellogg's wanted to pay you a million dollars a year to eat breakfast everyday but in some dystopian turn of US law were permitted to kill you if you skipped more than three days in a row? I'm not even sure that's involuntary if you take that "job" knowing the risks and it certainly isn't extremely hazardous.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What if say Kellogg's wanted to pay you a million dollars a year to eat breakfast everyday but in some dystopian turn of US law were permitted to kill you if you skipped more than three days in a row? I'm not even sure that's involuntary if you take that "job" knowing the risks and it certainly isn't extremely hazardous.

I'd allow that for Involuntary. And yes, even if you volunteered for the job knowing about the death clause. As is so often the case, the normal English meaning of the word differs from the GURPS-technical one in sufficiently weird edge cases.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I'd allow that for Involuntary. And yes, even if you volunteered for the job knowing about the death clause. As is so often the case, the normal English meaning of the word differs from the GURPS-technical one in sufficiently weird edge cases.

It's still clearly not remotely Hazardous though.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What if say Kellogg's wanted to pay you a million dollars a year to eat breakfast everyday but in some dystopian turn of US law were permitted to kill you if you skipped more than three days in a row? I'm not even sure that's involuntary if you take that "job" knowing the risks and it certainly isn't extremely hazardous.

Involuntary and Non-Hazardous, I should think. I'm not sure your point...are you nitpicking the 'legally enforceable'? I certainly grant that legal sanction does not preclude a Duty being Involuntary.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Involuntary and Non-Hazardous, I should think. I'm not sure your point...are you nitpicking the 'legally enforceable'? I certainly grant that legal sanction does not preclude a Duty being Involuntary.

I'm just trying to come up with an edge case that is clearly non-hazardous but still has a "you die if you fail" clause.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'm just trying to come up with an edge case that is clearly non-hazardous but still has a "you die if you fail" clause.

Ah, sure. That's what I was going for with the cyberpunk corporate scientist. You're probably safer at work than you are on your commute. But trying to quit is suicidal.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Ah, sure. That's what I was going for with the cyberpunk corporate scientist. You're probably safer at work than you are on your commute. But trying to quit is suicidal.

I saw that but I wanted a less ambiguous example, "corporate R&D" could be pretty dangerous in sufficiently cinematically cyberpunk settings. I wonder what the death rate was on the ED209 development team...

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Anders

As for stats, just assume it's instantly lethal.

Sure, but is it a small charge, just enough to reliably kill the victim or a bigger one that can cause damage to close bystanders? We need to know whether there is a muffled crump! noise and the guy falls over with his eyeballs hanging out or whether his brains spraypaint the wall while skull fragments lethally ricochet around the room.