New Reality Seeds

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

The Sublime Porte is cracking from the stress. Europe is a wasteland. The Americas are simmering and soon to boil.

What will your adventurers seek to do?

Given the much greater population of Europeans in the American colonies, declare a United Kingdom of America and the British Isles, making the US colonies (possibly after some mergers) peers with England, Scotland and (newly self-governing) Ireland in a federation. This federation makes an alliance with Sweden, and builds up the economic, naval and military power to re-conquer Europe, and restore the various monarchies of the continent, provided they play nicely with others.

More enlightened and constitutional monarchies can make the American and French revolutions unnecessary, and allow governments to evolve towards "crowned republics." If the Ottomans won't accept being pushed out of Europe, then we knock them over, and let stages emerge from the traditional regions of the Middle East, rather than trying to impose boundaries based on the ideas of "experts" who have travelled once or twice through the region.

Make India self-governing ASAP, leave China alone, but trade with it; see if the court of the Tsar of all the Russias have the sense to see that they should join the movement.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Given the much greater population of Europeans in the American colonies, declare a United Kingdom of America and the British Isles, making the US colonies (possibly after some mergers) peers with England, Scotland and (newly self-governing) Ireland in a federation. This federation makes an alliance with Sweden, and builds up the economic, naval and military power to re-conquer Europe, and restore the various monarchies of the continent, provided they play nicely with others.

More enlightened and constitutional monarchies can make the American and French revolutions unnecessary, and allow governments to evolve towards "crowned republics." If the Ottomans won't accept being pushed out of Europe, then we knock them over, and let stages emerge from the traditional regions of the Middle East, rather than trying to impose boundaries based on the ideas of "experts" who have travelled once or twice through the region.

Make India self-governing ASAP, leave China alone, but trade with it; see if the court of the Tsar of all the Russias have the sense to see that they should join the movement.

This is lively fun. Very clever. I'm going to go another way.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this one...

After Kara Mustafa's disastrous failed attack on Vienna in 1687 (I'll check my details and provide links later) a major talent showed up and did a major overhaul and reform of the Ottoman state. At about the same time a minor Russian princeling named "Petor" or something like that seems to have died. Poison was sussecpted.

In the 1720s the Ottoman state began to realize that improvements in navigation by the Christian Europeans were destroying their ecconomic base. This quickly lead to an all out war of conquest.

Austria was the first target. As this mean both Prussia and France gained a freer hand in their preferred areas, they ignored it. With no allies of importance, Austria fell. Then the Turks started an all out war to take the rest of Germany.

Because Hanover was attached to the British crown, Prussia and Britain allied to fight the Turks. This led France and Spain, both of which needed to humble Britain to declare war on Britain. Sweden, the Netherlands, and the Italian states were all swept into the wars.

It is now 1760. The Ottomans rule most of Europe. Their rule is weak and violent. Britain, Sweden, Spain, and Portugal, remain indipendent of Turkish hegemony. The Pope has fled to Mexico. Vast numbers of Christian refugees flee Germany and France for the King of England's American plantations.

The Sublime Porte is cracking from the stress. Europe is a wasteland. The Americas are simmering and soon to boil.

The Sublime Porte is moving large numbers of Moors, Arabs, and Turks, north into Europe and either enslaving Europeans or driving them out. The locals bitterly hate both the Turks and their catspaws.

Meanwhile in America many minor Kings, Princelings, Dukes that ran independent Dukedoms beholden to no king, bitterly hate the simple fact that the Americans don't obey them or see them as important. One minor German King tried to permanently close the Virginia House of Burgesses by burning it down with the delegates in it.

West of the Appalachian mountains, armies of displaced European mercenaries fight the Native Americans to found independent kingdoms.

The Danish Royal family has fled to the Virgin Isles ( they own some in this period) and are issuing letters of Mark against Ottoman shipping. Pirates are flocking back to the Spanish Main!

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this one...

After Kara Mustafa's disastrous failed attack on Vienna in 1687 (I'll check my details and provide links later) a major talent showed up and did a major overhaul and reform of the Ottoman state. At about the same time a minor Russian princeling named "Petor" or something like that seems to have died. Poison was sussecpted.

In the 1720s the Ottoman state began to realize that improvements in navigation by the Christian Europeans were destroying their ecconomic base. This quickly lead to an all out war of conquest.

Austria was the first target. As this mean both Prussia and France gained a freer hand in their preferred areas, they ignored it. With no allies of importance, Austria fell. Then the Turks started an all out war to take the rest of Germany.

Because Hanover was attached to the British crown, Prussia and Britain allied to fight the Turks. This led France and Spain, both of which needed to humble Britain to declare war on Britain. Sweden, the Netherlands, and the Italian states were all swept into the wars.

It is now 1760. The Ottomans rule most of Europe. Their rule is weak and violent. Britain, Sweden, Spain, and Portugal, remain indipendent of Turkish hegemony. The Pope has fled to Mexico. Vast numbers of Christian refugees flee Germany and France for the King of England's American plantations.

The Sublime Porte is cracking from the stress. Europe is a wasteland. The Americas are simmering and soon to boil.

What will your adventurers seek to do?

The Pope would likely flee to Spain, remaining in Europe rather than go to Mexico. Though a bunch of cardinals & priests would likely go to Catholic America.

Originally Posted by Astromancer

The Sublime Porte is moving large numbers of Moors, Arabs, and Turks, north into Europe and either enslaving Europeans or driving them out. The locals bitterly hate both the Turks and their catspaws.

Meanwhile in America many minor Kings, Princelings, Dukes that ran independent Dukedoms beholden to no king, bitterly hate the simple fact that the Americans don't obey them or see them as important. One minor German King tried to permanently close the Virginia House of Burgesses by burning it down with the delegates in it.

West of the Appalachian mountains, armies of displaced European mercenaries fight the Native Americans to found independent kingdoms.

The Danish Royal family has fled to the Virgin Isles ( they own some in this period) and are issuing letters of Mark against Ottoman shipping. Pirates are flocking back to the Spanish Main!

The Dutch monarchy similarly flees to the Caribbean (though many Dutch aristocrats take shelter in England, and Danish in Sweden), and similarly issues letters of Mark against Ottoman shipping.

Though a lot of Dutch, and other European Protestants like French Hugenots, also flee to Cape Colony. War with a strong Turkey closes off trade through the Middle East, so the route around Africa becomes more important.

The exiled European aristocrats in the Americas could be an alternate version of the exiled French aristocrats after the French Revolution - including an alternate Scarlet Pimpernel doing daring rescues in occupied Europe.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by fchase8

The Pope would likely flee to Spain, remaining in Europe rather than go to Mexico. Though a bunch of cardinals & priests would likely go to Catholic America.




The Dutch monarchy similarly flees to the Caribbean (though many Dutch aristocrats take shelter in England, and Danish in Sweden), and similarly issues letters of Mark against Ottoman shipping.

Though a lot of Dutch, and other European Protestants like French Hugenots, also flee to Cape Colony. War with a strong Turkey closes off trade through the Middle East, so the route around Africa becomes more important.

The exiled European aristocrats in the Americas could be an alternate version of the exiled French aristocrats after the French Revolution - including an alternate Scarlet Pimpernel doing daring rescues in occupied Europe.

The phone messes up my answers and denies me the chance to answer you with full respect. Still I'll try.

Moving the Pope to Mexico is extreme, but the goal is a papal takeover of New Spain. I'm going cinematic here.

Beautiful call on the Dutch monarchy.

Yes, Cape Town is also a center of resistance to the Turk. They probably seek out Islamic allies in Persia and Mulghal India.

Sir Percy's dad would be a good choice. Maybe Chauvelin is an ally.

[AlexanderHowl]

A better chance for the Ottoman Empire to expand would have been in the 15th century before the 'discovery' of the New World. If the Ottoman Empire had focused on conquering the Mediterranean rather than the Balkans during the 15th century instead of the 16th century, it could have very well conquered Southern Europe. In that case, the Pope would have been force to retreat to Germany after the fall of Italy, as the Ottoman Empire would have found particular pleasure in attacking the Iberia Peninsula.

In such a world, the Reconquista would have failed, as the Emirate of Granada would have probably provided a safe and secure base for Ottoman armies and Ottoman fleets attacking the Portuguese and the Spanish. The English were involved in the War of the Roses from 1455-1487, so they would have been incapable of helping the Portuguese or the Spanish. The 'discovery' of the New World would have likely been delayed by a century as the European powers would have had to have dealt with the advancing Ottoman Empire.

[Astromancer]

Try this one. Civil Wars break out in Russia in the later 17th century. The Romanovs fall. Charles XII conquers vast areas of Russia and Poland creating a vast Swedish Empire. Sweden, puts its energies into developing this empire ecconomically.


When the Napolenic wars role around Napoleon has as worthy an opponent on land as on the sea. The Anglo-Swedish allience creams Napoleon early, 1807. Now, to vast empires hold Europe. Casslereigh ( I'll check spelling later) isn't on the scene. There is no vision of balance. Sweden and Britain both see world domination as in their grasp. These wars will make Napoleon's look small.

[Xenarthral]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Make India self-governing ASAP

Uhm... If the divergence point is in 1687, the current year is 1760 and Europe
has spent the last 40-odd years fighting/being conquered by the Ottoman Empire, isn't most parts of India already self-governing?

I mean, I was given the impression that in OTL the Company Raj didn't
start until 1757 or so, and then it was pretty much just Bengal...

Or do you have anything in particular against the Maratha Empire/Confederation?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Xenarthral

aren't most parts of India already self-governing?

Err, yes. My mistake.

[YankeeGamer]

This was the backstory for a campaign I started preparing, but it never got off the ground, due to players relocating. It's rough, but perhaps a reality seed someone can play with. I envision it as being on Quantum 6 or 7, for the fun of both Centrum and Infinity. It's low mana, but with minimal magic use, to please the players.

The military of the United States is the greatest in the world today. The United States declared in August, 1914, that “Any unlawful interference with American commerce by the warring powers will result in instant war with the United States.” As a result, the United States managed to sit out the Great War of 1914-1919, although there were a few times when one side or the other tested America’s resolve. That resolve was seen to be firm, as the USN on several occasions provided armed escorted for American ships. On one noted occasion, after a Royal Navy seizure of several American ships, the USN provided an escort of 4 dreadnoughts plus assorted light ships for a convoy to Denmark. The possibility that the American ships could operate with the High Seas Fleet if war broke out was a factor in Britain’s returning of the seized ship, and neither side again molested American shipping. When the war ended, the United States navy was a force to be reckoned with—after the great battles in the final days of the war, the US was left with the world’s most powerful navy—and a building program to maintain that status.

The Royal Navy and the Imperial German Navy reluctantly realized that this would be the state of things to come for a long time
An attempt to limit naval armaments in the 1920’s failed, as the European powers anticipated another war, and could not agree on terms.

The fact that only a strong had navy kept the USA out of the wars was not lost on Congress, and the isolationists actually started to back a strong fleet—although not an army to match. With the big navy faction combined with the isolationist vote, the navy was building all the battleships it wanted. One British humorist noted grimly, “They have to stop somewhere—they’ll run out of state names sooner or later.”
Five years later, he was forced to eat his words, as the battleships White Mountains, Guam, New York City, and Apalachia joined the fleet.

Germany’s society liberalized, much as in OTL’s Weimar Germany, with free love, gays and lesbians living free, and jazz spread to Germany. (That’s the reputation; the reality is that Berlin and a few other cities are quite open—but respectable people need to have a pretense of folling traditional mores, even if it’s an open secret.

When the Second Great War broke out in 1946, the USA maintained a similar policy—and occasionally escorted merchants through the war zone. With the same policy in place, both sides saw that to bring the US into the war would be suicidal-especially since the US started a new building program when it became apparent that war would be likely again.

There were no Nazi’s and no Holocaust.

The war ended in 1950 with mixed results. Austria-Hungary finally collapsed, but France was humiliated yet again. Austria joined with Germany, to the trepidation of many. The Ottoman Empire had fallen onto hard times between the war, and disintegrated as the war ended. The Arabian peninsula managed to cobble together a semi-functioning government, but could see that they would be a focus of the next war; they have oil, and lots of it. The debate, first in OTL’s Saudi Arabia, and then in the US Congress, was long, but the money to be made by Arabian oil was irresistible. The USA was invited to take the region as a protectorate, and did. Imperial Japan was the first nation to get hit with a nuclear weapon; Great Britain used one to destroy the Japanese fleet. A threat to hit Germany with one if peace talks did not ensue right away was answered by Germany announcing that nuclear weapons would be answered by nerve gas on cities. The war in Europe came to an armistice, although Germany refused to make peace with Russia until they had taken more Russian territory.

War loan repayments flow into the United States. No forgiveness of war debt was forthcoming. This time, the Army was respectable, as the possibility of a greedy European nation seizing the American Middle East could not be ignored. The army was paid for by some of the loan repayments.

After two world wars in which the US stayed neutral, the US economy was very strong, with most of the nations of the world owing the USA vast sums of money. Even to this day, gold from Europe flows into American coffers repaying the debts of those distant wars.

Note—the Middle East is officially a protectorate of the USA, and the US Supreme Court as ruled that freedom of religion concerns means that various Islamic customs, such as polygamy, are protected under the first amendment, even if they were to become states. It has also ruled that women do have all the rights of men—weather they choose to exercise them is another story, and one that has caused some difficulties.

Today, the United States Navy is the world’s most powerful fighting force, consisting of 19 fleet carriers, 8 battleships, 3 missile battleships, as well as numerous cruisers and destroyers. John Paul Jones Station in low Earth orbit is the command center for the USN’s presence in space—so far, purely scientific and observation assets, at least publicly.

Only the United States, Imperial Germany, and Great Britain possess ballistic missile submarines, although China and the Russian have land based ballistic missiles, as does Imperial Japan.

The United States Navy has no great victory in battle—in fact, it has not been called to battle in over a century against a comparable force. Its great victory is keeping the USA out of the wars that devastated Europe twice in the 20th century.

The year is now 1998, and there are cracks in the Pax Americana. The USA is the dominant economy in the world as well as the most powerful militarily. With no wars, Civil Rights came more slowly, and sexism is sadly rampant. What rights people have varies enormously depending on the state, with New England and California having the closest to true equality. In the south, tensions are growing, and something might give; the demand for civil rights and women’s rights will not stop. Politics in the USA are fairly stagnant; the only real bone of contention between the parties is the Civil Rights issue. (Republicans favoring more civil rights for all, Democrats opposed.) So far, the Republicans haven’t pushed the issue too hard, but when it does come to a head, there may be bad things—rumors are that some state national guard units would oppose new civil rights laws by force, at the direction of their governors. Outside the south, more states are leaning towards more civil rights laws—when enough lean that way, the Republicans plan to blitz the electorate with STRONG civil rights candidates, and blow the Democrats into irrelevance.

Civil Rights are about like the mid 1950’s for blacks, and about like the 1970’s for women.

Outsdide the USA, Germany and Britain are both fairly democratic, with trappings of Empire. MAD keeps the Final War from breaking out, most likely between the Entente (Britain and Germany, France as a theoreticly equal third party) and allied nations, vs the Russian Empire and its satellites.

Germany is socially as liberal as the Netherlands in OTL.

Just something I started on a long time ago, and sadly lacking in the current state of affairs of the rest of the world. Any thoughts, please feel free to share