Whip questions.

[imaytag]

I've got a few questions about whips and entangling.

First of all, what does entangling actually mean? If someone is entangled with a whip is it the same as being grappled? -4 DX and immobilized?

In the Lariat rules it says that you roll the quick contest on turns after you hit by taking a ready maneuver to immobilize the target. Does this mean that they are not entangled/immobilized until the turn after they are hit?

The rules say the target may attempt to escape a limp whip by making 3 DX rolls to untangle themselves. If the whip is still in my hands and taut, can my opponent try to escape on his own turn by pulling the whip from my hands? Or is the quick contest on my turn his only chance to do that?

If the whip is pulled from my hands it is still wrapped around my target but limp. Does he take any penalties for having a limp whip wrapped around a body part? I know this has been talked about in a previous thread, just wondering if the RAW addresses this somewhere or if we should just houserule it.

If I have a target entangled by torso, arms or neck and I win the quick contest the next turn he is supposedly immobilized. But could he not still move towards me?

[imaytag]

I'll settle for just the game effects of being ensnared/entagled. The basic set mentions it multiple times but as far as I can tell never actually defines what it means.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by imaytag

I've got a few questions about whips and entangling.

This will get some more attention in the forthcoming Technical Grappling. No, I can't wait for it to come out either.

First of all, what does entangling actually mean? If someone is entangled with a whip is it the same as being grappled? -4 DX and immobilized?

Yes, entangled is best treated as being grappled. I'd get a bit picky about it: you entangle what you target. If you want to immobilize someone, you'll need to entangle/grapple their arms, legs, AND torso using a Rapid Strike + AoA (Double)!

In the Lariat rules it says that you roll the quick contest on turns after you hit by taking a ready maneuver to immobilize the target. Does this mean that they are not entangled/immobilized until the turn after they are hit?

This is supposed to be keeping them from moving, and clearly it's more complicated than some magical immobilization ray. If you entangle/grapple their legs, their movement will be impaired, but they could potentially draw a knife and cut the rope or whip.

Right now, the simple rule is if you entangle a foe, you can immobilize them with a Ready maneuver. It's deliberately simple, and deliberately powerful.

The rules say the target may attempt to escape a limp whip by making 3 DX rolls to untangle themselves. If the whip is still in my hands and taut, can my opponent try to escape on his own turn by pulling the whip from my hands? Or is the quick contest on my turn his only chance to do that?

I'd allow him to try and yank it away as an attack, either as an instant Disarming maneuver or by engaging in a Regular Contest to pull it out of your hands. He will be hampered, of course, by being grappled.

If the whip is pulled from my hands it is still wrapped around my target but limp. Does he take any penalties for having a limp whip wrapped around a body part? I know this has been talked about in a previous thread, just wondering if the RAW addresses this somewhere or if we should just houserule it.

I'd house-rule it, or you can just say it's an attempt to Break Free vs. an unresisting whip - in short, a ST or DX roll success might do it, maybe at -2 instead of -4 since the attacker is no longer helping out.

If I have a target entangled by torso, arms or neck and I win the quick contest the next turn he is supposedly immobilized. But could he not still move towards me?

By RAW, no. By common sense, yes. That's why I suggest getting specific upthread, which you seem positively disposed to by your suggestions.

You might also say that grappling him with a whip allows you to perform grappling techniques through that weapon, and if you want to immobilize someone, you need to use your grapple to perform a takedown...

[imaytag]

Thanks a bunch! I'm not actually the DM of my little group but none of us has played GURPS before (we only started because the DM's wife was upset he had bought a game he never plays lol) and I am one of those people that is just as interested in the way rules interact as the game itself (needless to say, I think GURPS tactical combat is the greatest thing ever). Whenever we encounter a new concept (for us) during a session, the DM makes a quick 'n' dirty houserule and then has me research it in the following week. I like to be able to present him with strictly the RAW, as well as some suggestions for possible houserules. I really appreciate being able to come here and get answers about the RAW as well as awesome ideas for houserules.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by imaytag

Thanks a bunch! I'm not actually the DM of my little group but none of us has played GURPS before (we only started because the DM's wife was upset he had bought a game he never plays lol) and I am one of those people that is just as interested in the way rules interact as the game itself (needless to say, I think GURPS tactical combat is the greatest thing ever). Whenever we encounter a new concept (for us) during a session, the DM makes a quick 'n' dirty houserule and then has me research it in the following week. I like to be able to present him with strictly the RAW, as well as some suggestions for possible houserules. I really appreciate being able to come here and get answers about the RAW as well as awesome ideas for houserules.

Congratulations and welcome to the forums.
Your GM is handling it real well. Quick house rule to keep the game flowing then research for the next time it comes up.
GURPS Martial Arts goes into it a bit more but a RAW whip attack is really too powerful IMHO.
Douglas who replied to your post wrote a supplement called GURPS Technical Grappling were all waiting to see published that goes into it in more detail and gives better ways to handle all things grappling.

Forums here are very helpful, not just by other fans but by many of the authors of the books and the current editors as well.

[imaytag]

So here's what I'm thinking of suggesting: A successful whip ensnare gives -4 DX to the body part as if grappled, but does not immobilize that body part, so you can still attack with an ensnared arm, or move around with ensnared legs (maybe needs to make a DX roll to not fall over in that case, with the -4), with the exception that as long as the guy with the whip holds it, you cannot move further away from your attacker, though you could circle him, like when harpooned.

On your turn you can attempt to pull the whip from his hands by making a disarm attack that automatically hits, but it's your ST vs his weapon skill, giving him the advantage in this case. You might be better off walking up and trying a real disarm, or trying to cut the whip, or just bashing face. Or you can try to untangle the whip like in the rules.

On the whipper's next turn he can take a ready maneuver to pull the whip taut like the book says, quick contest of ST and all. Against the neck, you start to suffocate, against the arms you can't attack with that arm anymore, against the legs you must make a DX roll or fall down. If he succeeds by 5 or more he can also choose to pull you one yard towards him. In all cases, you can now only move if each yard brings you closer to the whipper.

But it may be in the whipper's best interest to do other things. The -4 to DX will persist, even if he lets go of the whip, until you make 3 successful DX rolls like in the rules, which is bad enough.

Thoughts?

[imaytag]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Congratulations and welcome to the forums.
Your GM is handling it real well. Quick house rule to keep the game flowing then research for the next time it comes up.
GURPS Martial Arts goes into it a bit more but a RAW whip attack is really too powerful IMHO.
Douglas who replied to your post wrote a supplement called GURPS Technical Grappling were all waiting to see published that goes into it in more detail and gives better ways to handle all things grappling.

Forums here are very helpful, not just by other fans but by many of the authors of the books and the current editors as well.

Yeah the DM is great. I'm the one who is the real problem. It takes a supreme effort of will on my part not to correct mistakes he makes during play about rules we've already gone over. :P