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Old 03-05-2017, 06:45 PM   #51
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

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Originally Posted by EDG View Post
(Please be aware that there are a number of In Nomine mechanics that don't translate properly to Storium - in fact, they were written and then cut to satisfy that misunderstood wordcount - and while I can write them into supplementary material that guides players and GM, I believe I'm limited in introducing new cards and card types. If I'm wrong, I'll do what I can to implement whatever I can in mechanics rather than flavor text.)
I would like to suggest that any supernatural powers, ESPECIALLY resonances, be represented by asset cards. This would make it so that in order to use such an ability, you have to play not only the asset card in question, but also a strength or weakness card. This would effectively limit the number of times the ability can be used, and ensure that the ability occasionally fails. As it is currently written, Serpahim seem to be able to detect EVERY lie, and Balseraphs seem to be able to convince ANYONE of ANYTHING. Not great for balance, and not dramatically interesting.

I would also suggest writing up some Discords as weakness cards and suggesting to storytellers that players who violate their dissonance restrictions too often be required to take a discord weakness.
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:52 PM   #52
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

For the record, here is a quote from an email I got from a Storium representative explaining the situation.

"We do not have a word limit for our worlds, but as mentioned previously we did specify for authors the minimum amount of content that we would accept. Based on my emails with the SJG folks it sounds like there was a misunderstanding that led them to interpret those minimums as limits, and hence they didn't submit as much content as they might have otherwise. Looks like the issue was a combination of contract language and communication issues, so we're both responsible. The good news is that they apparently have more content and are willing to send it our way. When I know more details I will share them with you via email (if you are interested) and will also post them on the Storium forums."

So it would seem their is no word limit of any kind, and you mistook minimum for maximum and provided the absolute bear minimum one could provide for Storium. Is that accurate?
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

Well this is good news.
It bodes well that the Storium people are willing to work with SJG and that some material was already available but cut for a misunderstood word limit.
it is nice wehn companies can keep talking and working with each other and neither seems focused on blaming the other for everything.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

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So it would seem their is no word limit of any kind, and you mistook minimum for maximum and provided the absolute bear minimum one could provide for Storium. Is that accurate?
Pretty much. A prior version of the guidelines was slightly less clear on the minimum/maximum distinction, and something happened to some potentially clarifying email (Shedim of Vapula probably ate it; it certainly didn't get to anyone who could have sorted out the matter), so we were working with what we had.

The current guidelines are, obviously, much more clear about the matter -- but by the time those were up, the material was out of the author's hands and mine, so of course we weren't consulting them.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:52 PM   #55
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

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It bodes well that the Storium people are willing to work with SJG and that some material was already available but cut for a misunderstood word limit.
Storium's been being wonderful here, and it's a pleasure to talk to Stephen. Say nice things about them! O:>
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:30 PM   #56
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

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I would like to suggest that any supernatural powers, ESPECIALLY resonances, be represented by asset cards. This would make it so that in order to use such an ability, you have to play not only the asset card in question, but also a strength or weakness card. This would effectively limit the number of times the ability can be used, and ensure that the ability occasionally fails. As it is currently written, Serpahim seem to be able to detect EVERY lie, and Balseraphs seem to be able to convince ANYONE of ANYTHING. Not great for balance, and not dramatically interesting.

I would also suggest writing up some Discords as weakness cards and suggesting to storytellers that players who violate their dissonance restrictions too often be required to take a discord weakness.
Thanks for the suggestion! I've toyed with this idea myself. The problem is that even taking only resonances and Choir/Band attunements for the included Superiors into account, this comes out to well over a hundred resource cards - satisfying for the In Nomine rules completionist, but utterly overwhelming for the Storium player who wants to see what In Nomine is about.

There's also the matter of the player atmosphere. Storium's general attitude tends to be "trust the players" - which means trusting them not to abuse the abilities the text gives them but which aren't reflected in the card mechanics. This is at odds with the more adversarial approach between players and GMs that many tabletop games employ, and it can be difficult to get used to if you're coming from that milieu.

That said, I'm happy to take your suggestions under consideration and I'll do what I can to balance the competing sensibilities.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:51 PM   #57
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

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Thanks for the suggestion! I've toyed with this idea myself. The problem is that even taking only resonances and Choir/Band attunements for the included Superiors into account, this comes out to well over a hundred resource cards - satisfying for the In Nomine rules completionist, but utterly overwhelming for the Storium player who wants to see what In Nomine is about.

There's also the matter of the player atmosphere. Storium's general attitude tends to be "trust the players" - which means trusting them not to abuse the abilities the text gives them but which aren't reflected in the card mechanics. This is at odds with the more adversarial approach between players and GMs that many tabletop games employ, and it can be difficult to get used to if you're coming from that milieu.

That said, I'm happy to take your suggestions under consideration and I'll do what I can to balance the competing sensibilities.
I'll be honest, I don't know how to solve those problems either, and I kind of suspect that a reconciliation between the themes of In Nomine and the system of Storium might just be impossible. The moment I saw In Nomine on their list of worlds, I thought it would be difficult to adapt, but I also had nearly 20 years of enjoying Steve Jackson Games products thoroughly, so I assumed that, given the strong commitment to quality they've demonstrated over the years, they must have found a way to put In Nomine into Storium in a way that accurately reflects the setting, or they wouldn't be doing it. The whole reason I paid for access to this world while using homegrown write ups for every other world was that this seemed like something a professional was needed for, or someone who would be permitted to add new cards or alter the rules. Anyway, point being, I'm afraid I haven't thought of a way to accurately run In Nomine on Storium. If I had I'd already be doing it.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:45 PM   #58
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

The themes of In Nomine are readily adaptable; anyone who's written or read fanfiction based on the game has experienced those themes adapted to a framework far less structured even than Storium's! The game mechanics are another matter - but if we wanted all the game mechanics of In Nomine as written, we'd just play tabletop In Nomine.

Adapting a game setting to a new ruleset necessarily requires adopting that new ruleset. Much like GURPS In Nomine didn't break or alter the way GURPS works in order to fit In Nomine in, Storium In Nomine can't break or alter the way Storium works.

I'm going to do my best to get more information in - we're still discussing the details - but my first responsibility is to fit the setting and themes of In Nomine into Storium, not to rework Storium to fit In Nomine's game mechanics. Again, I sympathize with your frustration, but if you're tying In Nomine's themes that closely to its mechanics and expecting an In Nomine adaptation to change the way Storium games are played, I'm afraid there's not much I or anyone else can do to resolve that.

As an aside, you may be interested to know that I've been playing In Nomine since shortly after its release in 1997, was assistant line editor and Online Roleplaying Coordinator for many years, and have previously written for the game. Whatever shortcomings I may have as an author, I assure you that failure to love or understand the game is not one of them.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:44 PM   #59
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

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The themes of In Nomine are readily adaptable; anyone who's written or read fanfiction based on the game has experienced those themes adapted to a framework far less structured even than Storium's! The game mechanics are another matter - but if we wanted all the game mechanics of In Nomine as written, we'd just play tabletop In Nomine.

Adapting a game setting to a new ruleset necessarily requires adopting that new ruleset. Much like GURPS In Nomine didn't break or alter the way GURPS works in order to fit In Nomine in, Storium In Nomine can't break or alter the way Storium works.

I'm going to do my best to get more information in - we're still discussing the details - but my first responsibility is to fit the setting and themes of In Nomine into Storium, not to rework Storium to fit In Nomine's game mechanics. Again, I sympathize with your frustration, but if you're tying In Nomine's themes that closely to its mechanics and expecting an In Nomine adaptation to change the way Storium games are played, I'm afraid there's not much I or anyone else can do to resolve that.
What I feel to be the most central, important aspect to In Nomine is something I fear can't be simulated in Storium. I'll try to explain.

When an angel breaks their dissonance restrictions, they risk accumulating dissonance, which risks leading to discord, which risks falling. However, none of that is the GMs decision. It's simulated by dice. But unlike in other games, the dice don't simulate random chance. They simulate God. You see the same thing in the d666 roll, and countless other mechanics. In many RPGs, we say the GM is God, but not in In Nomine. In In Nomine, God is explicitly part of the game, but is simulated by randomness, because his/her will is totally unknowable and ineffable to the players.

This is what, to me, makes In Nomine a brilliant, even profound work of art. It is a world where God explicitly exists, everyone knows he/she exists, and yet his/her actions are simulated by randomness. Because that is what it's like to be a believer, to have faith. To believe in a God is to take the seemingly random, purposeless universe you live in and try to ascribe meaning to it. Perhaps there is meaning, God works in mysterious ways, as they say, but whether there is or isn't, you have no way of knowing. But in order to justify that faith, you have to assign meaning to the essentially random. This is what you do in In Nomine, and this is what the faithful do in real life.

The creators of In Nomine could have easily told the GM, "Hey, you're God, just do what you think God would do, go nuts!" But they didn't. They told the GM to keep God distant, aloof. To keep God's will unknowable. This puts people in a universe where they players believe 100% in the existance of God, but still struggle deeply to understand what he/she does, because it's random enough to be totally unknowable. That is the perfect metaphor for what it is like to be one of the truly faithful, as well as a perfect simulation of what it's like to have faith for those who don't. Personally, I believe that's what makes In Nomine a brilliant piece of art, and why I think that if you can't find a way to carry at least that aspect of the mechanics over to Storium, then you shouldn't do it. I don't think its adaptable to another framework, and I think the moment you change In Nomine to a system where God's actions aren't determined by random chance, you turn it from a profound, meaningful, brilliant piece of art into just another game. A good game, but one not nearly as meaningful.
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:42 AM   #60
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Default Re: Storium - In Nomine

Presumably this is true of any setting with an omnipotent deity (or deities). I don't think that really needs dice to reflect it, or even really needs mechanical translation. For Storium, which works more like fiction, I would think that God is in the emergent properties of shared narrative.
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