Need help with a power ability.

[Jaware]

I once more consult the collective for ideas and the general "know how"

I have devised a very interesting idea for a character concept. But I don't know how to make one part work.

The idea is to create a character that fights with an illusion to make his weapon see, invisible, or at least appear to be a different weapon than it actually is.

That part isn't so bad I assume that it could be made decently easy using the illusion advantage from powers.

However. The second half of the idea is the character has a "place" where they store other weapons. Then they can change back and forth as the fight goes on.

So say he has a longsword, then when his enemies find out he's got a longsword, he can switch to say a spear or a knife etc.

How would I design it? It's items the character owns. So if one gets broken for some reason, it's broken.

But I just don't know how one would build that ability.

Any suggestions?

[McAllister]

Cosmic Payload, along with Fast Draw (skill) and Quick Sheathe (perk), should cover the second ability. Get Sleight of Hand if your illusion won't be able to conceal the change.

I've never seen a satisfying solution to the issue of a partially invisible or visually misleading weapon. I hope someone else can come up with one. It seems like the sort of thing that would be published in GURPS: Martial Arts Meets Powers. I'd buy that twice.

[Refplace]

The COsmic Payload option is how I would go with the Fast Draw as well.
Note that you can buy stuff that lets you manipulate the inside of the pocket at 1/5 the cost.
I built a mage who had Cosmic Payload with internal eyes and hands so he could, among other things hand himself the correct Tarot card.
A bit more complicated than the Fast Draw build but handy for a wide variety of items without having to have several pockets.

As for the Illusion weapon what do you want the game effect to be?
Act like Deceptive Attack? If so I could see buying skill up to offset the penalties only.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Refplace

The COsmic Payload option is how I would go with the Fast Draw as well.
Note that you can buy stuff that lets you manipulate the inside of the pocket at 1/5 the cost.
I built a mage who had Cosmic Payload with internal eyes and hands so he could, among other things hand himself the correct Tarot card.
A bit more complicated than the Fast Draw build but handy for a wide variety of items without having to have several pockets.

As for the Illusion weapon what do you want the game effect to be?
Act like Deceptive Attack? If so I could see buying skill up to offset the penalties only.

That sounds like a plan to me.

I don't know about the weapons effect of being invisible.

I would think it would be completely surprising at first. Since it would just look like someone with an open fist and ready stance. So maybe no defence first time. Then after that penalties similar to fighting someone invisible. Since they don't know what kind of weapon it is.

And then when they finally find out what kind of weapon it is, you switch it and then they don't know anymore. And it's back to square 1. Cause you might have swapped it for an actual nothing and you hold nothing in your hand.

Game mechanicly, I would think something similar to a flails penalties because fighting something you can't see if difficult. But steeper. Especially if he draws a knife and stabs you with a spear. Because he made it look like one. And then the penalties godown after successful defenses or perception check or IQ check etc to try and see through the illusion.

Or if he just makes it look like the blade is a foot to the left. That could be very disrupting as well.

Other than that I dont really know. That's what I was brainstorming for

[Refplace]

No defense is excessive. You can see the gestures if the weapon is invisible but not the person. An experianced foe can figure a lot out by how you move and your grip. Even an inexperianced one can tell your making an attack rather than just standing there.
Gadget based skill towards Deceptive Attack seems the best fit to me.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Refplacit,

No defense is excessive. You can see the gestures if the weapon is invisible but not the person. An experianced foe can figure a lot out by how you move and your grip. Even an inexperianced one can tell your making an attack rather than just standing there.
Gadget based skill towards Deceptive Attack seems the best fit to me.

I have to dissagree. Even in the imbuements vengeful armor thr foe doesn't get a defense the first time it happens.

The way I see It, figuring out someone is attacking you or just standing there isn't that big of a deal.

however, if they are stabbing you with a knife, it would require a different movement at a different time than if they were stabbing with a rapier.

just the same weapon with different reach can be quite butal.

not to mention. Squaring off with the guy and he holds still for a secon. Assuming you know what he's capable of, he could be evaluating, or he could be waiting, or he could switching weapons, or he could just be standing there.

and if he switched weapons, there's that unknown variable again. Does he have the knife he had a few seconds ago... or does he have a reach 2 rapier?

The deference is very substantial.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Jaware

However. The second half of the idea is the character has a "place" where they store other weapons. Then they can change back and forth as the fight goes on.

So say he has a longsword, then when his enemies find out he's got a longsword, he can switch to say a spear or a knife etc.

How would I design it? It's items the character owns. So if one gets broken for some reason, it's broken. ?

Payload (Cosmic: 'Hammerspace', +50%) + Perk: perfectly organized packing in my Hammerspace.

"Hammerspace", also called "Katana-space" or "Matrix-space" is a mysterious extra-dimensional space under the coat or behind the back of cartoon characters, Highlanders, and characters in The Matrix that can be used to store weapons (and only weapons). It can't be found by searching as it doesn't really exist, but the character can access it freely.

The Perk means that you never have to search the hammerspace for your stuff; the item you want is always immediately at hand.

Combine with Fast Draw for fun and profit.

[Mithlas]

Originally Posted by McAllister

I've never seen a satisfying solution to the issue of a partially invisible or visually misleading weapon.

I wouldn't think it would be necessary, I would treat every parry against or involving that weapon (until an evaluate maneuver is made) as Misleading Attack. A master swordsman might be able to handle your Man-At-Arms but an untrained mook would be unable to keep up.

Originally Posted by Jaware

I would think it would be completely surprising at first. Since it would just look like someone with an open fist and ready stance. So maybe no defence first time. Then after that penalties similar to fighting someone invisible. Since they don't know what kind of weapon it is.

And then when they finally find out what kind of weapon it is, you switch it and then they don't know anymore. And it's back to square 1.

Game mechanically, I would think something similar to a flails penalties because fighting something you can't see if difficult. But steeper. Especially if he draws a knife and stabs you with a spear. Because he made it look like one. And then the penalties go down after successful defenses or perception check or IQ check etc to try and see through the illusion.

This sounds very much like what Saber did in Fate/Zero, and her opponents had to defend but made the very same evaluation to counter it - her first fight against a spearmaster did so in seconds of clashing, using probing attacks. So no defense (as against a completely unknown enemy) is too far, but a small penalty is fitting. Especially if having a high skill in the weapon being wielded could help counter it - if you're a master yari-user, you're going to recognize yari stances and movements.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Mithlas

I wouldn't think it would be necessary, I would treat every parry against or involving that weapon (until an evaluate maneuver is made) as Misleading Attack. A master swordsman might be able to handle your Man-At-Arms but an untrained mook would be unable to keep up.


This sounds very much like what Saber did in Fate/Zero, and her opponents had to defend but made the very same evaluation to counter it - her first fight against a spearmaster did so in seconds of clashing, using probing attacks. So no defense (as against a completely unknown enemy) is too far, but a small penalty is fitting. Especially if having a high skill in the weapon being wielded could help counter it - if you're a master yari-user, you're going to recognize yari stances and movements.

If memory serves correctly, those opponents were extremely well trained from many centuries of practice which would mean their skill would be ludicrously high.

What I'm saying is the guys an illusionist whose capable of making his weapon invisible or look like another weapon. So he could be making his hand/stance/whathaveyou look different as well.

The penalties for flail is for the weapon being unpredictable even though it could be seen. And it's a -4 to parry. -2 to block.

It seems the same bare minimum for a weapon that isn't predictable. But isn't visible.

Are you dodging a spear? Nope sorry, it's a trident. its actually shaped a bit different.

Are you parrying a longsword? Nope sorry, it's a kusari and your weapons wrapped.

I would say the more that particular weapon is used on them the more they would get to piece it together as if to what they are fighting. But as soon as it switches out, especially if they don't know that it has been switched out, it's all back to the drawing board.

I do agree that one style user would be able to recognize a style of a weapon/martial arts attack. But. Just marginally. Not knowing what your up against is extremely difficult at best.

You can't defend against something that you don't know or understand. Especially if you don't have a reason to believe that it is even dangerous or a threat.(eg someone has a knife 4 yards away and they stab at you. It's a joke. Till you find out there's a spear sticking out of your giblets cause it was just an illusion.)

A small penalty doesn't seem even kinda sorta right.

Maybe if they took the time to try and se through the illusion or the what haves. Good luck doing that while being attacked. But once you figure out what your fighting it wouldn't be that bad. It's finding out exactly what's making your die before you die that's the difficult part.

Now after you know that something is going on, maybe you watched your Ally get stabbed with a knife only to be a spear, and you are aware that "somethings not right here" then you could attempt a defense. Though a heavily penalized one. Cause it's more of a "I hope this works."

But when your opponet hold still and doesn't do anything that's scary. Did he do a wait? Did he do an evaluate? Did he just do nothing(maybe to recover AP)? Or did he switch weapons?!?!?!

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Jaware

What I'm saying is the guys an illusionist whose capable of making his weapon invisible or look like another weapon. So he could be making his hand/stance/whathaveyou look different as well....

A small penalty doesn't seem even kinda sorta right.

Or an illusionist could make himself appear not to be there at all (totally invisible, use those rules) or several yards away (free attacks from the rear), or in multiple copies (the good old D&D Mirror Image spell), or make the enemy think he's completely lost, having been teleported to a different place entirely (completely unaware of anything happening in the fight), or back at home, safe in bed, having just woken up from a terrible nightmare about being in a fight (not even realizing he's in a fight). All of these are far different from the OP's question about the effects of merely making a weapon invisible, or seeming to be a different type.

The reason people are dissatisfied with each other's suggestions on this topic is that they all have different and wildly varying ideas of how the illusion ability can be and is used to affect combat. Naturally they'll come up with different answers and dislike the others, because they're not even agreeing on the basic premises.

So, in this case you really need to revert to "buy the effects, not the name", and work from the bottom up. Define the combat ability you want the illusionist to have, buy that via the appropriate abilities (which are not the Illusion Advantage, so make them AAs), and then just label the special effects as "illusions". Don't ask "how can Illusion help in combat", because the answer is "any way you feel like" if you interpret it broadly enough, but instead pick the combat bonus, pay for it, and then ask "how do I describe this bonus as based on illusions and distraction".