07-13-2016, 09:13 AM | #1 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
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Vertol vs Helicopter
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What about a modern quadrotor RPV? Is it closer in skill terms to a helicopter or to that hovering Harrier? Or should it be considered its own thing with a new Piloting specialisation? What about an Osprey or other tiltfan? I have flown helicopters and Harriers in simulations, and quadrotors in real life, and I think the quadrotor is closer to Vertol: you have an actual throttle, not a collective. As for the Osprey I really want to say it needs Helicopter and Heavy Airplane; from what I've heard, that's pretty much how the flight controls are set up, with two different modes so that existing helo pilots could learn easily. But I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
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07-13-2016, 09:24 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
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I haven't seen Thrash post much in this forum but he'd be the most knowledgeable person I can think of. You might be able to get his e-mail off a post from the Traveller forum.
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Fred Brackin |
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07-13-2016, 10:23 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
I don't have a source for this, but I seem to recall that the accident rate in the V-22 was helped when they switched from putting transport-only pilots in it to pilots with helicopter training. This, to me, means that helo training is at least helpful to understanding how to fly the V-22. But, all things considered, I think vetol is the way to go as it combines both winged and power-lifted flight.
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07-13-2016, 12:27 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: traveller
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
Best I can tell from a description, the V-22 takes advantage of its fly-by-wire system to make it handle like a helicopter at a hover and like an airplane in forward flight. In GURPS terms, the pilot should really be qualified for both, although you might let the character get away with Pilot (Heavy Airplane) and a perk (V-22 Qualified).
Similarly for quadcopter RPVs: the aerodynamics are rotary-wing, not vertol, so that's the skill I would require. The throttle vs. collective (which usually includes an automatic throttle control) difference isn't that significant. You can fly a helicopter with just the throttle and cyclic, though it's a pain in the ass and only used for certain emergencies (stuck right pedal). Real vertols (AV-8 Harrier, for instance) are very different animals with their own aerodynamics and quirks. From what I understand, flying one in hover mode is more like piloting the Apollo Lunar Module than a helicopter. Just one example to illustrate: helicopters hang from their rotor systems; vertols stand on top of their thrust. At some point, higher technology and fly-by-wire will flatten out a lot of the differences. I always imagine that spacecraft, etc., capable of hovering handle like helicopters (cyclic, collective, and pedals), but only because that's what I know. There was a station in the SIMNET combined flight simulator at Fort Rucker in the late 1990s that was primarily intended for observers (i.e., it didn't simulate a real aircraft). The "flight" control was a ball on a fixed stick: twist for roll, pitch, and yaw; push for lateral movement. Edit to add: The FAA has an airplane category for pilot licensing called "powered lift": Quote:
Last edited by thrash; 07-13-2016 at 12:54 PM. |
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07-13-2016, 12:45 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New York City
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
From talking to a few Osprey pilots I would say it's Helicopter & Heavy Airplane.
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07-13-2016, 05:55 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
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In the Travelleresque space trader game I ran under hybrid 3/4e (pre Ultra-Tech, never mind Spaceships, with full Vehicles writeups for the spacecraft), I - incorrectly per RAW - required multiple pilot skills for different modes of flight on the same vehicle: High-Performance Spacecraft for manoeuvres in orbit, Aerospace for re-entry, Vertol for vertical landing/takeoff. I still think there's something to be said for that as a design philosophy.
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07-13-2016, 06:43 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
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07-13-2016, 08:32 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
Yeah, though sometimes I think the aircraft modes should really be High-Performance Airplane or Heavy Airplane rather than Aerospace; I tend to reserve Aerospace for making the actual transition, craft like dropships and shuttles, and for orbiters. This gives stuff like aerospace fighters three "modes" or skills: High-Performance Airplane for fighting in atmo, High-Performance Spacecraft for fighting in a vacuum, and Aerospace for making the transition between vacuum and atmo.
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07-14-2016, 08:34 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: traveller
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
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The FAA rating implies that the pilot of a powered-lift aircraft has to be equally skilled at all modes of flight, since proficiency will be evaluated in all of them. My impression is that GURPS flight skills are specific to the vehicle, not the mode of flight. There's no requirement for High Performance Spacecraft pilots to have (or roll against) Low Performance Spacecraft skill to perform low energy docking maneuvers, for example. Infrequently used modes of flight are captured in lower defaults to other specialties. |
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07-15-2016, 04:21 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: Vertol vs Helicopter
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Actually, speaking of helicopters, quadcopters and similar things, is driving a twin rotor (like a Chinook) a different skill from a single rotor? How about Kamov style stack rotors? Based on my (limited) understanding of how these things fly, they should behave very differently... |
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