04-17-2012, 12:01 PM | #41 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Magic predictions of the future would make the cave man story soft and they would make the space story soft. The point is that in either case science is a red herring. We already know "normal people can't see the future" without science and science adds nothing to that. My point is that the effort gone to scientific accuracy and the absence of wonders are both characteristics of hard fiction. What they are not is synonymous. They go together because our minds are trained to expect them to go together and they are both appropriate elements of hard sci-fi. But the absence of wonders is not an example of the presence of reliable science in a work, or vice-versa.
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison Last edited by jason taylor; 04-17-2012 at 12:08 PM. |
04-17-2012, 12:07 PM | #42 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
I don't see how magic is precluded from hardness because of being scientific implausible; "scientific" is unnecessary as we already know it is simply implausible, and that is the point. I think magic is precluded for the same reason that prophesy is precluded. Because it just doesn't belong. As for superscience, superscience is attempting to make the hypothetical claim to be scientific, and therefore is subject to analysis on those grounds. We don't analyze Bobby Fischer on the basis of whether he can beat up George Foreman but on whether he can force resignation on Garry Kasparov.
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison |
04-17-2012, 12:12 PM | #43 | |
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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04-17-2012, 12:19 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison |
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04-17-2012, 12:26 PM | #45 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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04-17-2012, 12:38 PM | #46 | |
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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Science can give ideas about whether or not it is possible to reliably conceal the heat signature of a large spaceship. It can tell how long a message transmitted by a media known to exist, can get from the outer system to the home planet. And we require science to know such things. We already know that ordinary hand-axes cannot cut elephants in half. If we are told that a hand ax forged by the gods can, our belief or non-belief is not about science.
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison |
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04-17-2012, 12:43 PM | #47 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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04-17-2012, 12:49 PM | #48 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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04-17-2012, 12:52 PM | #49 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Because if it is made obvious by the behavior of the characters and/or the formulation of the plot that "this plot device is strange, and wonderful", and you say "It is scientifically improbable" you have said exactly nothing. The characters already know it is improbable; that is why they are marveling over or dreading it. Saying the word "science" does not add to it. It is like those stories we hear from time to time where a newspaper says, "studies say sexy women make men dumb". When science does not and really cannot contribute more information then is already known, then saying "it is scientifically impossible" is not only superfluous but is playing word games.
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison Last edited by jason taylor; 04-17-2012 at 01:03 PM. |
04-17-2012, 12:53 PM | #50 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
They absolutely do not pose a problem in space opera. They pose a problem in hard sci-fi.
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison Last edited by jason taylor; 04-17-2012 at 01:00 PM. |
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