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Old 09-22-2015, 07:28 PM   #11
Andreas
 
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

There is a large difference between invisibility that prevents you from being seen by the means of light reflecting of you and invisibility masking any light source you carry (did Frodo wear the ring while using galadriel's phial?). It is very possible that someone wearing the ring would be plainly visible in the infrared spectrum.

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
There is some evidence for the ringwraiths being cold; whether this would apply to a living being using the ring (or just negate the living being's heat signature) is an open question, as is whether the cold is physical or spiritual.
As far as I know there was no mention of Frodo or Bilbo being cold while wearing the ring. The ringwraiths being cold could be due to them being more similiar to undead monsters than to humans.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
There is a large difference between invisibility that prevents you from being seen by the means of light reflecting of you and invisibility masking any light source you carry (did Frodo wear the ring while using galadriel's phial?). It is very possible that someone wearing the ring would be plainly visible in the infrared spectrum.
s.
Probably not. The invisibility is an effect of being partly moved into the spirit world. It's for that reason that wearing the ring actually makes you more visible to spirits and it means that you have another place to radiate your heat into other than the physical world.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:54 PM   #13
DAT
 
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

One thing to consider is that the wearer of the One-Ring does cast a shadow.

So there is the question of how Hyperspectra vision would see that.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

You buy Invisibility by type. IIRC, one type was Electromagnetic spectrum. So assuming the ring grants invisibility using regular GURPS rules, hyperspectral vision wouldn't help.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

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Originally Posted by DAT View Post
One thing to consider is that the wearer of the One-Ring does cast a shadow.

So there is the question of how Hyperspectra vision would see that.
Not well, unless you have a solid light source. And that will scare off gollum pretty quick. Unless you are using a spectrum he can't see. And that combination is pretty specialized and beyond what these PC's are trying to do. (though I did suggest it above)
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

ISTM that if the Ring is aware of these world-jumping, time-jumping adventurers its really not going to matter whether their hyper-spectral goggles can see Gollum with the ring on because the ring will deliberately slip off Gollum's finger in an attempt to be found by the clearly more-powerful adventurers.
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Old 09-22-2015, 10:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

As others have noted, the Ring doesn't just make you invisible per se. Apparently, there are two 'worlds', superimposed on each other, maybe occupying the same space, maybe not, but you can exist in both at once to varying degrees. A person in the 'other world' can see a Ring-wearer more clearly than they can if the Ring is not on. Likewise, when he was wearing the Ring Frodo could see the Ringwraiths, not just their robes but they themselves.

The Ring doesn't take you all the way there, though. You can still touch the world, breathe the air, and you still cast some vague sort shadow. The technical details of how all this works would be known only to Sauron and any surviving members of the Ring-smiths of Eregion, and none of the above are answering any questions at the moment.

As Gandalf told Frodo, there was only one Ainu in the world who knew all about the Rings and their effects, and that was Sauron, and even he might not be able to predict every interaction, such as with Hobbits.

Even the question of how a spirit-form interacts with matter is not entirely clear. Gandalf tells Frodo at one point that the Nazgul wear robes to give themselves form to interact with the world...but they can interact with the robes. The Ainur make bodies to use in interacting with the material world...but they can interact with matter enough to make the body as a spirit, too. Tolkien is deliberately vague on the technical details of all this, though some of the characters in his world know more than others about it.

Aragorn notes, for ex, that even Men (including Hobbits) have senses other than the physical. They can feel the Nazgul in the area. Frodo senses, while looking down at the old road from Minas Ithil to Osgiliath, that there is something down there, some kind of presence moving along the old road that is not material. Bearing the Ring can sharpen such senses, but they exist prior to it.

The Noldor Elves, those who once lived in Valinor, live in both worlds at once to a huge degree, I would assume that Glorfindel could see Frodo even if he has the Ring on, though Tolkien never says for sure. Ditto probably Galadriel.
Normally Gandalf ought to be able to, as a Maia, but he might have been stripped of that ability when incarnated (small 'i') as a Wizard.

We never see a High Elf put on the One Ring, but there's no guarantee that such a one would turn invisible if he or she did, for that same reason. Likewise, the Ring probably could not make Gimli invisible, but again we're never told for certain.

Likewise, BTW, footprints and the like. Since a Ring-wearer is only half there, his effect on the environment is going to be less than otherwise. So the heat radiated by the footprints might be less than normal, so less visible to a thermal imager.

Would you be able to see a Ring-wearer in non-visible frequencies? In light of the nature of the Ring, the answer would have to be...maybe, maybe not. Probably infra-red or ultra-violet observation would not give you a clear image, but just as there is a faint half-shadow, there might be something there that you could half-perceive. Or might not.

Likewise, radar might well give you something, since the wearer can interact with the physical world...but probably less of a reflection than you would expect for an object the size and density of a given person.
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Old 09-22-2015, 10:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

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Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
ISTM that if the Ring is aware of these world-jumping, time-jumping adventurers its really not going to matter whether their hyper-spectral goggles can see Gollum with the ring on because the ring will deliberately slip off Gollum's finger in an attempt to be found by the clearly more-powerful adventurers.
This tidily dodges some esoteric questions while seeming correct to me. My players would be freaked out if they geared up to fight Gollum and then the ring threw itself into their possession. I'd be asking for Will rolls to avoid wearing the ring, defending it from other PCs, and trying to conquer Middle Earth. Any time an artifact starts causing Will rolls or QCs, players are going to start working on getting rid of it. I think the challenge is to make this hard, but in a fun/tempting way. The seductive power of the Ring is where I'd focus my thinking.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

One does not simply jump into Mordor ...

When Isildur wore the ring, "he was invisible to all eyes". So, imho, the wearer cannot be directly seen by any vision roll, aided or unaided.
The wearer can be smelled, heard, he leave tracks that will be easy to follow/notice with hyperspectrals goggles (if they know to look for it, otherwise, it may well get lost in the 'noise'), but he cannot be directly seen.

Radar/sonar : it depend who is wearing the ring and for how long they had it. An elf is solid, so is Bilbo. A Nazgul is a fade, and would not register on radar/sonar unless clothed. Gollum ... perhaps a slight penalty to the roll, he is on his way to fade-ness, but not yet there.

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Last edited by Celjabba; 09-22-2015 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

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Originally Posted by DAT View Post
One thing to consider is that the wearer of the One-Ring does cast a shadow.

So there is the question of how Hyperspectra vision would see that.
Actually I kind of like the idea that the goggles would see an amorphous cold spot because you don't radiate or reflect EM in a way that can be seen, but you do still absorb it.
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