Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only

Mr_Sandman · 07-17-2016, 09:21 AM

What would you say is the fair value for a limitation of that Compartmentalized Mind that lets you Move and Concentrate simultaneously, but not any other combination of maneuvers? Off the top of my head I'm leaning towards -30%, but I don't have an strong reasoning or citations from RAW that supports it.

McAllister · 07-17-2016, 09:29 AM

Gosh, I'd say that sounds about right. It's similar to the All-Out limitation from Powers, but instead of removing your ability to defend, it's forcing you to spend your action moving. Taking actions other than moving is great... defending is great... yeah, -25% or -30% seems good.

Did your D&D player (who may be yourself) get fed up with not having a standard action and a move action in a turn? I'm playing another system, Numenera, where moving consumes your whole action, and people freaking hate it. I'm a little chiller, but I think being able to move and act improves play as a rule.

Mr_Sandman · 07-17-2016, 10:16 AM

Mostly the idea is to allow mages who can cast spells, or gather energy in RPM, while running away, a la Harry Dresden. But I don't want to allow attacking while concentrating on a spell, or concentrating on two spells simultaneously.

Donny Brook · 07-17-2016, 10:24 AM

It's possible I'm not understanding what you're going for with this, so my comment may just sound annoyingly off topic, and if so, sorry about that.

CM 1 allows you to do add a mental maneuvre on to any other maneuvre. So it seems like an accessibility limitation (Only with a Move maneuvre) that cuts the utility substantially more than half. I'd rate it at least -40%, possibly up to -60%).

Mr_Sandman · 07-17-2016, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

It's possible I'm not understanding what you're going for with this, so my comment may just sound annoyingly off topic, and if so, sorry about that.

CM 1 allows you to do add a mental maneuvre on to any other maneuvre. So it seems like an accessibility limitation (Only with a Move maneuvre) that cuts the utility substantially more than half. I'd rate it at least -40%, possibly up to -60%).

I think you understand what I'm going for, but things that cut accessibility in half get a -20% limitation.

Bruno · 07-17-2016, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman

What would you say is the fair value for a limitation of that Compartmentalized Mind that lets you Move and Concentrate simultaneously, but not any other combination of maneuvers? Off the top of my head I'm leaning towards -30%, but I don't have an strong reasoning or citations from RAW that supports it.

There are 12 maneuvers in the Basic Set, 15 if you count the extra maneuvers from Martial Arts and Psionic Powers.

This is limiting to either 1/12 or 1/15 of pairs, which is 8.33% or 6.66% of pairs. Those are both basically in the -35% band from the Accessibility chart, Powers page 99. You might argue that if you're using all 15 maneuvers it's actually -40%, but I'm inclined to round that 6.66% up to 7%.

Donny Brook · 07-17-2016, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman

I think you understand what I'm going for, but things that cut accessibility in half get a -20% limitation.

I think it's a bit different than that. Things that cut an accessable universe in half are considered to amount to a -20% reduction in utility. Things that directly cut utility in half should get-50%.

Bruno · 07-17-2016, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I think it's a bit different than that. Things that cut an accessable universe in half are considered to amount to a -20% reduction in utility. Things that directly cut utility in half should get-50%.

Having a 10d attack become a 5d attack (all the time) is -50% of course - it's buying half the levels. But this isn't half power - you get all the Compartmentalized Mind levels that you bought, and if you keep making Move actions (which is a choice within your power) you can keep using all those Compartmentalized Mind as much as you like.

This is much like "only on Tuesday", only you have more control over it. I think the Accessibility rules are the correct choice here.

Mr_Sandman · 07-17-2016, 01:52 PM

Cool, 35% is close to my gut feeling, and there is a written rule to support the logic, so I'll go with that.

I personally wouldn't allow buying multiple levels though, because I want to preclude it from being used to concentrate for two spells/advantages at once. Besides, if you can only use this version of Compartmentalized Mind to Move and Concentrate at the same time, the second level couldn't be used to concentrate if the first was already concentrating.

Andreas · 07-17-2016, 03:03 PM

The Compartmentalized Mind advantage consists of two parts. Being able to do an extra mental maneuver which costs 40 points (No Mental Separation -20%) and the mental separation that helps against various attacks.

Unless the mental separation also don't work when you do anything but move and concentrate, it would not be appropriate to apply the -35% to the entire advantage (and if it don't work then, it should be incompatible with No Mental Separation to avoid overlapping limitations).

35% of 40 points is less than 30% of 50, so the limitation should probably at most be 30%.

07-17-2016, 09:21 AM	#1
Mr_Sandman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: L.I., NY	Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only What would you say is the fair value for a limitation of that Compartmentalized Mind that lets you Move and Concentrate simultaneously, but not any other combination of maneuvers? Off the top of my head I'm leaning towards -30%, but I don't have an strong reasoning or citations from RAW that supports it.

07-17-2016, 09:29 AM	#2
McAllister Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only Gosh, I'd say that sounds about right. It's similar to the All-Out limitation from Powers, but instead of removing your ability to defend, it's forcing you to spend your action moving. Taking actions other than moving is great... defending is great... yeah, -25% or -30% seems good. Did your D&D player (who may be yourself) get fed up with not having a standard action and a move action in a turn? I'm playing another system, Numenera, where moving consumes your whole action, and people freaking hate it. I'm a little chiller, but I think being able to move and act improves play as a rule.

07-17-2016, 10:16 AM	#3
Mr_Sandman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: L.I., NY	Re: Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only Mostly the idea is to allow mages who can cast spells, or gather energy in RPM, while running away, a la Harry Dresden. But I don't want to allow attacking while concentrating on a spell, or concentrating on two spells simultaneously.

07-17-2016, 10:24 AM	#4
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	Re: Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only It's possible I'm not understanding what you're going for with this, so my comment may just sound annoyingly off topic, and if so, sorry about that. CM 1 allows you to do add a mental maneuvre on to any other maneuvre. So it seems like an accessibility limitation (Only with a Move maneuvre) that cuts the utility substantially more than half. I'd rate it at least -40%, possibly up to -60%).

07-17-2016, 01:52 PM	#9
Mr_Sandman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: L.I., NY	Re: Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only Cool, 35% is close to my gut feeling, and there is a written rule to support the logic, so I'll go with that. I personally wouldn't allow buying multiple levels though, because I want to preclude it from being used to concentrate for two spells/advantages at once. Besides, if you can only use this version of Compartmentalized Mind to Move and Concentrate at the same time, the second level couldn't be used to concentrate if the first was already concentrating. Last edited by Mr_Sandman; 07-17-2016 at 05:01 PM.

07-17-2016, 03:03 PM	#10
Andreas Join Date: Mar 2014	Re: Compartmentalized Mind limitation - Move and Concentrate only The Compartmentalized Mind advantage consists of two parts. Being able to do an extra mental maneuver which costs 40 points (No Mental Separation -20%) and the mental separation that helps against various attacks. Unless the mental separation also don't work when you do anything but move and concentrate, it would not be appropriate to apply the -35% to the entire advantage (and if it don't work then, it should be incompatible with No Mental Separation to avoid overlapping limitations). 35% of 40 points is less than 30% of 50, so the limitation should probably at most be 30%.