[Magic] Illusion spells

[Phex]

In M95, one can read this statement about the spell Simple Illusion: "[The illusion] may move to a different area, or change size or shape up to its maximum area, if the caster concentrates." Similar holds true for all other illusions. This raises two questions:

1. How fast can illusions move if the mage concentrates on them? How fast can they move on their own (e. g., Phantoms or illusions with Independence or Initiative)?

2. Is a line-of-sight neccessary for the Mage to influence his illusion or can he do it from million of miles away with closed eyes?

I cant find any rules about these questions.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Phex

1. How fast can illusions move if the mage concentrates on them? How fast can they move on their own (e. g., Phantoms or illusions with Independence or Initiative)?

2. Is a line-of-sight necessary for the Mage to influence his illusion or can he do it from million of miles away with closed eyes?

I can't find any rules about these questions.

I don't have a lot of 4th Ed books, so take this with a big grain of salt.

1. The Illusion moves at whatever speed the caster wants. It can teleport from here to there, if that's what the caster wants, but unnatural speed may give away the fact that it is an illusion and the speed should depend on the action. The illusion could walk at running speed but it's likely to set off somebody's "something fishy is going on" detector.

2. I can't recall anything specific about this in 3rd Ed. rules, either. However, Steve Jackson did happen to address this particular issue somewhat indirectly in his Designers Notes for The Fantasy Trip (TFT) when he was talking about the necessity of unequivocal rules for solitaire use. IIRC the quote ran along the line of "You create an illusion on the other side of a door. Can you then use its senses to see what's on the other side of the door? I decided that would allow players to short-circuit adventures too easily, so no."

While GURPS isn't TFT, it sounds like a design decision that was likely to carry over to any other fantasy game he did. So I'd say, no the mage doesn't require a LOS connection to influence his own illusions, but unless he has someway of seeing the location where the illusion is or has general knowledge of the layout of the location, he's limited to "the warrior turns to his right, takes three paces to the left, turns back to the front and then swings his sword to his right-front" level of directions. If that has the illusion walking through walls, then the illusion walks through walls.

Strictly an unofficial interpretation for both questions. YMMV.

[Phex]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

1. The Illusion moves at whatever speed the caster wants.

That would mean an illusionary dragon could be created next to the caster on earth and then teleported to the moon to scare a moon cow. But yes, I dont see any rule which denies this.

Your answer to question 2 was also my interpretation so far.

[benz72]

Within the AoE it may have whatever speed the caster desires (even teleportation). To move the AoE is a different question to which there are a few answers...

1) You can't wihtout the use of another spell (q.v. displace spell M124)

2) It can move at MV5 with concentration but not otherwise.
(can't seem to find the page reference here)

3) House rule it... I like limiting the AoE speed to Magery^spell level. e.g. M for simple, M^2 for complex, M^3 for Perfect and Phantom.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by benz72

2) It can move at MV5 with concentration but not otherwise.
(can't seem to find the page reference here)

The 3E FAQ is the one I know of, although it may have appeared elsewhere. I don't know of a good reason to assume that ruling has changed.

[Anaraxes]

Illusions are Area spells. Changes within the area can happen at will. The area of effect of the Illusion spell itself can be moved with concentration. The speed at which it can be moved is the question.

A illusion of a one-hex creature in a one-hex Area can move as fast as the area can be moved. An illusion of a one-hex creature in a 10-hex-radius area can move as fast as you like, whether zipping from one side to the other (Move 20), or disappearing and reappearing on the opposite side (teleporting) -- though you might be risking the verisimilitude of your illusion by having it act this way. It can't go outside the bounds of the initial area, though, unless the caster moves the area itself.

If you want your illusion to teleport from here to the moon, then you need to create an area large enough to contain both here and the moon.

[Phex]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

The 3E FAQ is the one I know of, although it may have appeared elsewhere. I don't know of a good reason to assume that ruling has changed.

Interesting. But why has this rule not been incorporated into the fourth edition?

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The speed at which it can be moved is the question.

Yes. But it seems as if there were no written rules about this.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

If you want your illusion to teleport from here to the moon, then you need to create an area large enough to contain both here and the moon.

If the speed of moving an illusion spell area is infinite, then I have to disagree. Otherwise, you are right.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Phex

Interesting. But why has this rule not been incorporated into the fourth edition?

Yes. But it seems as if there were no written rules about this.

If the speed of moving an illusion spell area is infinite, then I have to disagree. Otherwise, you are right.

Baring any rules that say you can move it I think the reason no mention is smply because you cant move it (the area) without another spell.
That is how I have run it n the past, a few area spells can move but they specify it in the description.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Phex

Interesting. But why has this rule not been incorporated into the fourth edition?

If you mean the FAQ entry, that's a ruling rather than a rule, and rulings are grandfathered in as long as not invalidated by changes in the underlying rules.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Phex

Interesting. But why has this rule not been incorporated into the fourth edition?

It wasn't in my Magic Second Edition either, so it's not too surprising that it isn't in the newest edition. Given all the similarities between Magic for 3E and for 4E, I'd think that if you just want a rule to go by, that one from the 3E FAQ would suit fine.