(RPM) Giving yourself options in combat

[Engurrand]

I'm just discovering Ritual Path Magic in a Dresden-verse based game my brother is running. IMHO, it's a beautiful system that very cleverly takes advantage of the extraordinary detail and flexibility of GURPS character generation. It seems to have the same weaknesses as that as well: lots of GM arbitration and front-end heavy calculations. I have a few questions:

1)Can you use RPM to give yourself a bonus (gives bonus) to the innate attack skill you use to hit with your RPM damage spells, or does that count as "making yourself better at magic," which is taboo as written?

E.G.
Lesser Strengthen (+2e) Body -> Gives Bonus +4 to narrow range (+16e), duration: momentary.
Lesser Control (+5e) Magic -> Contingency "Activates when caster shouts: "Fly true!"
= total 23 energy.

2) Do the advantages granted by Altered Trait spells which wish to affect an area require the "Area affect" modifier in addition to the RPM energy cost for an area of affect?

E.G.
Greater Transform (+8e) Energy -> Altered Trait: Obscure 10 (+20e), Duration: 1hr (+3e), Area Effect: 2y (+0e),

If you want to extend the area of affect, do you buy the +50%/level enhancement on Obscure (+10e/level), improved area effect on the spell (from the area of affect ritual modifier which gives a value from the speed/range table), or both?

(Note: I would assume the area of effect of the spell would grant the trait to anyone inside it, and the area of effect of the trait would determine how wide each of those people's obscure shells were?

3)Are there traits which are taboo by RAW to give yourself besides magery and ritual adept? For example, Innate Attack.

E.G.
Greater Create (+5e) Energy -> Altered Trait: Crushing attack 4, Cone [+20%], No Wounding [-50%], Double Knock-back [+20%], Uses SK:Innate Attack (Breath), (+18e), Duration 1 hr (+3e), Area effect (???? per previous question). = total cost 63 energy (plus 3x area effect cost).

This ritual adds kinetic energy to the caster's breath: they can focus and spit a cone of concussive force, whenever they want, for the duration of the spell.

(Note: this is considerably less energy efficient per point of damage than an ordinary attack ritual (in the short-term), however, it's more reliable, more flexible if your gm permits power stunts (for which you might need to give yourself a non RPM ER), and much preferable for battles of attrition.)

4) Can you apply gadget limitations to the traits which you grant yourself using Altered Trait spells?

(Note: my GM let me do this as long as I paid cash for the physical gadget, and prepared it using a charm kit - the result is a "focus" which makes a single ritual less expensive, but without which the ritual will not function. We did not use the Traditional Trappings efficiency modifier. Obviously, the gadget limitation "unique" was taboo without justifying circumstances)

5) Can you "power stunt" contingencied spells by paying the energy cost of additional enhancements (per RPK's rule for adding enhancements) out of ER at the moment of activation (instead of the moment of casting)? This mostly applies to damaging rituals - contingencied lightning bolts and such.

I know the answer to nearly all of these could (and probably should) be: "It's up to your GM." But as a GM myself I'm interested in the flaws and merits of these options. Thank you for your consideration!

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

1)Can you use RPM to give yourself a bonus (gives bonus) to the innate attack skill you use to hit with your RPM damage spells, or does that count as "making yourself better at magic," which is taboo as written?

I'd allow it, but insist that the targeting be built into the spell. The effect doesn't make you better at magic, but it is effecting an existing spell.... which means both effects need to be included at once.

This has the nice effect of making such a spell costly for everyday use but doable when you need to put a fireball through a pipe at 100 yards.

2) Do the advantages granted by Altered Trait spells which wish to affect an area require the "Area affect" modifier in addition to the RPM energy cost for an area of affect?

No, the trait effecting an area and the advantage effecting an area are two completely different things.

If you want to extend the area of affect, do you buy the +50%/level enhancement on Obscure (+10e/level), improved area effect on the spell (from the area of affect ritual modifier which gives a value from the speed/range table), or both?

just on obscure. The magic is centered on the target.

5) Can you "power stunt" contingencied spells by paying the energy cost of additional enhancements (per RPK's rule for adding enhancements) out of ER at the moment of activation (instead of the moment of casting)? This mostly applies to damaging rituals - contingencied lightning bolts and such.

I wouldn't, one of the principal limitations of RPM is the "one casting, one energy cost, one spell" principal. This seems to be a way around that.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

I'm just discovering Ritual Path Magic in a Dresden-verse based game my brother is running. IMHO, it's a beautiful system that very cleverly takes advantage of the extraordinary detail and flexibility of GURPS character generation. It seems to have the same weaknesses as that as well: lots of GM arbitration and front-end heavy calculations. I have a few questions:

1)Can you use RPM to give yourself a bonus (gives bonus) to the innate attack skill you use to hit with your RPM damage spells, or does that count as "making yourself better at magic," which is taboo as written?

E.G.
Lesser Strengthen (+2e) Body -> Gives Bonus +4 to narrow range (+16e), duration: momentary.
Lesser Control (+5e) Magic -> Contingency "Activates when caster shouts: "Fly true!"
= total 23 energy.

I don't see why not.

Originally Posted by Engurrand

2) Do the advantages granted by Altered Trait spells which wish to affect an area require the "Area affect" modifier in addition to the RPM energy cost for an area of affect?

E.G.
Greater Transform (+8e) Energy -> Altered Trait: Obscure 10 (+20e), Duration: 1hr (+3e), Area Effect: 2y (+0e),

If you want to extend the area of affect, do you buy the +50%/level enhancement on Obscure (+10e/level), improved area effect on the spell (from the area of affect ritual modifier which gives a value from the speed/range table), or both?

(Note: I would assume the area of effect of the spell would grant the trait to anyone inside it, and the area of effect of the trait would determine how wide each of those people's obscure shells were?

No. You're granting the ability. It WOULD be cheaper if you used a Spell Effect + Bestows a Penalty + Area of Effect though. Something like that is going to get expensive.

Originally Posted by Engurrand

3)Are there traits which are taboo by RAW to give yourself besides magery and ritual adept? For example, Innate Attack.

E.G.
Greater Create (+5e) Energy -> Altered Trait: Crushing attack 4, Cone [+20%], No Wounding [-50%], Double Knock-back [+20%], Uses SK:Innate Attack (Breath), (+18e), Duration 1 hr (+3e), Area effect (???? per previous question). = total cost 63 energy (plus 3x area effect cost).

This ritual adds kinetic energy to the caster's breath: they can focus and spit a cone of concussive force, whenever they want, for the duration of the spell.

(Note: this is considerably less energy efficient per point of damage than an ordinary attack ritual (in the short-term), however, it's more reliable, more flexible if your gm permits power stunts (for which you might need to give yourself a non RPM ER), and much preferable for battles of attrition.)

Not that I am aware of. As you pointed out it WOULD be cheaper. Also remember the person under the rituals effect wouldn't be able to make use of any other spell with that same effect. Also, I would probably make this a Greater Transform Body effect since you are giving someone the ability. Greater Create Energy would make more sense as a one-off spell.

Originally Posted by Engurrand

4) Can you apply gadget limitations to the traits which you grant yourself using Altered Trait spells?

(Note: my GM let me do this as long as I paid cash for the physical gadget, and prepared it using a charm kit - the result is a "focus" which makes a single ritual less expensive, but without which the ritual will not function. We did not use the Traditional Trappings efficiency modifier. Obviously, the gadget limitation "unique" was taboo without justifying circumstances)

Off the top of my head this doesn't seem too broken but I wouldn't do it this way. Check out PKs website for his musings on "enchanted items" in RPM. These sorts of items make sense to me if you're creating "blasting rods" and "shield bracelets." ;-)

Originally Posted by Engurrand

5) Can you "power stunt" contingencied spells by paying the energy cost of additional enhancements (per RPK's rule for adding enhancements) out of ER at the moment of activation (instead of the moment of casting)? This mostly applies to damaging rituals - contingencied lightning bolts and such.

I know the answer to nearly all of these could (and probably should) be: "It's up to your GM." But as a GM myself I'm interested in the flaws and merits of these options. Thank you for your consideration!

Not from what I've read. When you make a conditional spell/charm/potion that spell is defined right then except for the subject

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'd allow it, but insist that the targeting be built into the spell. The effect doesn't make you better at magic, but it is effecting an existing spell.... which means both effects need to be included at once.

This has the nice effect of making such a spell costly for everyday use but doable when you need to put a fireball through a pipe at 100 yards.

So basically "yes with caveats" which I read as a variant on "It's up to your GM." I'm okay with this answer, especially if you happen to be my GM when you're saying it, but I'm curious if the option could be applied more broadly: for example, putting the gadget limitations and strength based enhancement on a spell such that it's direct damage is added to the strength based damage of a sword (per question 4) (for example, momentarily increasing it's momentum in the moment of impact), and then also give yourself a bonus to your sword skill.

Originally Posted by ericthered

No, the trait effecting an area and the advantage effecting an area are two completely different things.

I see that I answered my own question there. Thank you for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by ericthered

just on obscure. The magic is centered on the target.

Gotcha. Thanks.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I wouldn't, one of the principal limitations of RPM is the "one casting, one energy cost, one spell" principal. This seems to be a way around that.

A very limited way around it, yes.

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

These sorts of items make sense to me if you're creating "blasting rods" and "shield bracelets." ;-)

That's exactly how they came up.

EDIT: Except shield bracelets are still ridiculously energy expensive, even so.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

That's exactly how they came up.

EDIT: Except shield bracelets are still ridiculously energy expensive, even so.

Like I said. Use PK's rules for making enchanted items and go from there. :-) I've used them for my games and they work quite well.

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Like I said. Use PK's rules for making enchanted items and go from there. :-) I've used them for my games and they work quite well.

Thank you for the link! Is that all there is? It seems like PK's rules for enchanting amount to: "RPM skills can count as a gadgeteering prerequisite to allow you to spend earned CP on gadget limited advantages." Which makes perfect sense to me as long as enchanting happens off-screen, between adventures.

Harry Dresden's shield bracelet is still a huge point-cost advantage though. It's force field DR with an area of affect (power stunted routinely to larger areas), that can stop high powered rifles. Even with gadget limitations I can't seem to get that below [100].

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

Thank you for the link! Is that all there is? It seems like PK's rules for enchanting amount to: "RPM skills can count as a gadgeteering prerequisite to allow you to spend earned CP on gadget limited advantages." Which makes perfect sense to me as long as enchanting happens off-screen, between adventures.

Harry Dresden's shield bracelet is still a huge point-cost advantage though. It's force field DR with an area of affect (power stunted routinely to larger areas), that can stop high powered rifles. Even with gadget limitations I can't seem to get that below [100].

I've looked for a link that I thought was to a thread where he expounded on it some more but damned if I can find it. If you are the GM or are doing researching for them let me give you some advice here: ignore the point costs after the game begins or even charge the player a Unusual Background for it. I've used the guidelines from Dungeon Fantasy 6 (p. 20) with great effect.

What level of DR are you trying to get? Have you considered using the Defense meta-trait from Supers (p. 34). I would think Harry could get by with DR 11(ish) (which is enough to safely ignore handguns and be resistant to SMGs, rifles, etc. His bracelet DID get better later on but I'd let the player get there the same way Harry did: through time investment making it better.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

Thank you for the link! Is that all there is? It seems like PK's rules for enchanting amount to: "RPM skills can count as a gadgeteering prerequisite to allow you to spend earned CP on gadget limited advantages." Which makes perfect sense to me as long as enchanting happens off-screen, between adventures.

Harry Dresden's shield bracelet is still a huge point-cost advantage though. It's force field DR with an area of affect (power stunted routinely to larger areas), that can stop high powered rifles. Even with gadget limitations I can't seem to get that below [100].

RPK has authored a full supplement on this magic system which many are eagerly awaiting to see the light of day. So it seems counter productive to him to put too much on that site since most of his ideas will hopefully be in the book.
All enchantment tends to be off screen.


As for harry, that is an Heirloom if I recall correctly. Only saw the tv series, not read the books yet. It was from his mother so its an heirloom and from what was purported to be a very powerful Witch.
That and its rarity and relative power indicate a high point cost is appropriate. It is not something everyone seems to have.

[Christopher R. Rice]

The RPM book does/will have such rules. :-)