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Old 06-16-2017, 09:00 PM   #11
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I split Shadowing between Stealth and Observation, and basically dump the skill entirely.
And I merge Observation, Search, and a few others together as a single skill called Investigation.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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And I merge Observation, Search, and a few others together as a single skill called Investigation.
There really is a big difference between watching people unobtrusively and noting the details (Observation), and tossing a room for the hidden stash (Search).
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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There really is a big difference between watching people unobtrusively and noting the details (Observation), and tossing a room for the hidden stash (Search).
Yes, and there are also big differences between Hiking, Cartography, and the Survival specialties, which I also merge into a single skill called Exploration. I also combine all the medical skills into a single skill called Medicine.

And every single one of my 30 skills is /Hard. Ten of them are combat skills, of which eight are melee combat.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

This post is helpful. Thanks for your share!
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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And every single one of my 30 skills is /Hard. Ten of them are combat skills, of which eight are melee combat.
Are these 30 skills posted anywhere, for the curious?
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:32 AM   #16
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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Are these 30 skills posted anywhere, for the curious?
Probably. It's easier for me to just post them again than to search the forums for where else I've posted them. I'm sure I've made some small tweaks to it since the last time I posted it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Combat Skills
Archery. Defaults to DX/2 or Throwing-4. Includes Bow, Crossbow, Blowpipe, Spear-Thrower, and Sling (of which Bow, Sling, and maybe Crossbow actually exist on my weapons table).
Flail. Defaults to DX/2, Hafted-2, or any other melee weapon at -4. Includes one-handed, two-handed, kusari, impossible 'chuck weapons, whip, etc.
Hafted. Defaults to DX/2, Flail-2, Sword-3, or any other melee weapon at -4. Any rigid melee weapon with the mass concentrated in the striking surface towards one end, whether one-handed, two-handed, or a polearm.
Knife. Defaults to DX/2, Unarmed-2, Sword-2, or any other melee skill at -4. Includes Knife, Main-Gauche, Shortsword, Jitte/Sai, Smallsword, and Sabre. Faces no penalties for off-hand use.
Shield. Defaults to DX/2. Includes Buckler and Cloak.
Spear. Defaults to DX/2, Sword-3, or any other melee weapon skill at -4. Includes Staff and several polearms; the way the quarterstaff's parry bonus works is integrated into the rest of the skill (only when you're holding a pole at its shortest reaches, basically, hindering its Sw damage) but still more potent on a staff itself than on other poles.
Sword. Defaults to DX/2, Knife-2, Spear-3, Hafted-3, or any other melee weapon at -4. Includes the usual suspects; Broadsword, Shortsword, Two-Handed Sword, Rapier, Sabre, Tonfa, Jitte/Sai (for the longer jitte at least), and so on. Sword-like polearms such as glaives and naginatas are also included.
Throwing. Defaults to DX-3, Archery-4, or specific different defaults from throwable melee weapons for those weapons only. Includes Bolas, all specialties of Thrown Weapon, Throwing, Dropping...basically anything Throwing Art would've covered, but without turning non-weapons into weapons. As this is the same difficulty as Throwing Art, a Perk, TBAM, or Weapon Master turn this skill into Throwing Art as appropriate.
Unarmed. Defaults to DX-3, Knife-2, or any other melee skill at -4. Combination of all unarmed striking skills, and would include grapples too if I used those.

On Fencing: Getting the F parry comes in the form of buying a Perk for the appropriate skill. Knife-Fencing, Sword-Fencing, and Unarmed-Fencing are the most common but Spear-Fencing is not unheardof. This comes at a penalty of not being able to use Swing attacks, only tip-slashes, until you switch stances.

Fast-Draw is another Perk, specialized by skill, and doesn't care about reality checks. Just roll against the appropriate weapon skill, if you think there are serious penalties and need a base to roll against - usually you skip that part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by And the Rest
Acrobatics. DX-6 or Athletics-4. Includes its namesake, Aquabatics, Aerobatics, Running, Jumping, Climbing, etc.
Alchemy. No default. Also includes Herb Lore, Chemistry, and Pharmacy.
Artisanry. Defaults to IQ-6. The short version is it covers everything under the Artisan talent, Artist specialties, and Cooking - any building, crafting, or creative skill all in one place. NPCs or PCs using one or two such disciplines for background flavor are pointed to a Perk that gives IQ+0 competence in one specialty for [1].
Athletics. Defaults to HT-4 or Acrobatics-4. Includes the likes of Swimming, Hiking, Breath Control, and a bunch of others. I've considered dropping/merging it further!
Beast Lore. IQ-6 or Nature Lore-4. Covers the identification, training, riding, and veterinary care of all non-sapient animals. A Perk can be taken for something like Beast Lore(Equines) or Beast Lore(Canines) at attribute level, whether to shave three points off a build or to focus a character's flavor.
Combat Lore. IQ-5. It's Tactics, Strategy, Observation, Forward Observer, Soldier, Savoir-Faire(Military), etc. Considered calling it "Warcraft" but that'd mean a few too many W skills.
Deception. IQ-6, Persuasion-4, or Performance-4. The art of getting what you want through intentional misleading.
Exploration. PR-6 or Nature Lore-4. Includes Cartography, Hiking, Navigation, all Survival specialties, and probably a few other things.
Intimidation. WL-5. The art of getting what you want through a convincing show of force and willingness to do harm. (Should have a Performance and/or Deception default, maybe? Default roll would still be floated to Will).
Investigation. PR-6. This is the skill of looking for and finding stuff, whether that stuff is "hidden in plain sight", in a secret compartment, in a person's pockets, or whatever. Can also be used where Observation would normally be called for.
Lockpicking. DX-6. Per-based rolls can find traps, IQ-based rolls for puzzle-locks and traps, whatever. This is a skill of safely undoing mechanical and sometimes supernatural or metaphorical devices, whether those devices merely keep a barrier closed or cause harm upon activation.
Medicine. IQ-6. All healer-like stuff that isn't an actual healing spell goes here, including Pharmacy and Veterinary.
Merchant. IQ-5. Includes Finance, Accounting, and some other un-dungeony skills. Calls for Per-based rolls to spot or identify some treasures (knowing most gemstones is automatic with this skill), and Will-based rolls for haggling.
Nature Lore. IQ-6, Beast Lore-4, or Exploration-4. Includes Psychology and Physiology for all Animal, Plant, Hybrid, Slime, and Fairy entities as well as Naturalist.
Performance. IQ-6, Deception-4, or Persuasion-4. All entertainment skills, like Singing, Musical Instrument, Stage Combat, and so on. If you just want to sing or play an instrument or two, Perks have you covered even for doing it well.
Persuasion. IQ-6 or Deception-4. Includes Public Speaking, Diplomacy, Teaching, and and whatever else qualifies conditionally as attempting to sway another person to your line of thinking through means that are not coercive (Intimidation) or misleading (Deception). Using this skill in place of Deception doesn't mean you're right, it just means that you aren't disingenuous.
Religion. No default. Includes Theology, Religious Ritual, Exorcism, Physiology/Psychology/Hidden Lore for angels, demons, and dragons. Gives a default of -4 for Psychology of Elder Things.
Sleight of Hand. DX-6, Deception-4, or Performance-4. Includes Pickpocket, Filch, Sleight of Hand, and Holdout.
Stealth. DX-6. I could jokingly say that it's just the basic GURPS skill made a step harder for no reason other than skill difficulty standardization, but it technically includes Shadowing too. I doubt thieves will really be complaining, considering the generous defaults and mergers of so many other skills they'd normally take.
Wizardry. No default. Includes Occultism, Thaumatology, Research, whatever miscellaneous academic skills seem appropriate at the time, and Psychology/Physiology/Hidden Lore for Fairies, Elementals, and Dragons and gives a -4 default on the Physiology of Elder Things.
On Elder Things:
WIZARD: "I can tell you it has a thousand and one tentacles with each a hundred and thirty seven mouths and nine eyes on each tooth of those mouths, and that it has an aversion to quince, but I have no idea how something like that thinks."
PRIEST: "I can tell you it prefers to eat virgins and its own cultists, and that anyone who sacrifices a sapient to it has an equal chance of being rewarded with unholy powers or being eaten along with the sacrifice, and that in theological terms it counts as a mortal rather than a demon. Just a very powerful, very foreign mortal."
WARRIOR: "Don't sacrifice virgins to it and coat my sword in quince juice, got it."

Hidden Lore on Things is...very well hidden. Probably in another spatial dimension of which 3D beings cannot comprehend.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

This would be nice released as a web page, or downloadable doc; I think a number of GMs would like this simplified approach.

I see at least one GURPS skills placed under more than one of the 30 Skills: Hiking, under both Athletics and Exploration. Is that intentional?

Also, do the categories of Expert Skills, Professional Skills, and all scientific skills go somewhere, or are they left out of the game?
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
This would be nice released as a web page, or downloadable doc; I think a number of GMs would like this simplified approach.
I have my current WIP as a Google Docs file. I'm also pretty sure that at some point I posted these skills and their defaults as their own thread on this forum; there used to be a default between Archery and Spear.

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I see at least one GURPS skills placed under more than one of the 30 Skills: Hiking, under both Athletics and Exploration. Is that intentional?
Several skills are included in multiple other skills, and this is quite intentional. Another example is that both Knife and Sword include Shortsword, and how different polearms can be one or more of Spear, Sword, or Hafted weapons. Likewise Veterinary is both Beast Lore and Medical, so you simply roll against the higher of the two when relevant.

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Also, do the categories of Expert Skills, Professional Skills, and all scientific skills go somewhere, or are they left out of the game?
I basically decided to just leave those out of the game, and if someone wanted Attribute-level competence in something off the books I'd only charge a Perk, and for an additional +2 after that would be a second Perk (allowing someone with an attribute of 10 to get a professional level for 2 points regardless of the skill's official difficulty).
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

I've also worked to reduce the skill list. I have a post with my house rules here on my blog.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:35 AM   #20
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Default Re: Tips for avoiding skill bloat; Pro skills

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I've also worked to reduce the skill list. I have a post with my house rules here on my blog.
Yours was actually the inspiration for mine, followed by the proficiency list in D&D 5th Edition.
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