Magical Life in Worminghall

[Andreas]

Accidental demon summoning could certainly explain such a social stigma, but there are many other factors which can affect how people react to mages. Things like healing people and saving them from famines could make them very popular. On the other hand there are plenty of spells which could make it worse (deliberately summoning demons for example). It also depends on how accidentally summoned demons are handled. Whether they are quickly dealt with and whether the summoning can be blamed on some convenient scapegoat.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Accidental demon summoning could certainly explain such a social stigma, but there are many other factors which can affect how people react to mages. Things like healing people and saving them from famines could make them very popular. On the other hand there are plenty of spells which could make it worse (deliberately summoning demons for example). It also depends on how accidentally summoned demons are handled. Whether they are quickly dealt with and whether the summoning can be blamed on some convenient scapegoat.

The answers you give have multiple implications. See, if we're talking about EVERY single mage requires guards about in case there are demons, then we're talking about the possibility that Mages have to be regulated sufficiently so that you can concentrate your "guards" to be on hand at any given time. "Legal" spell casting might require that it be cast in specific locations for the benefit of the general public, or that it be cast with a team nearby.

Either way, that is going to drive up the cost of business for a mage, because I seriously doubt that these "guards" are going to be doing this for free.

But then comes the next implication... scapegoats? Could a mage who has an ethical approach to life, consider falsely blaming someone else as something he'd want on his/her conscience? ;)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by hal

But, this isn't an attempt to dissuade people to not use EVERYTHING for their campaigns - but to try to imagine life in the Worminghall Universe. Build standard stock mages with say, 75 points (or less) - and let them loose in this thread. Have them show what they can DO with their spells. Show how they would change things.

A stock mage needs more than 75 points. I found 75 points just about right for PCs who were newly matriculated 14-year-old boys. If you want a Bachelor of Magic, 125 points may be about right.

[sir_pudding]

Demons show up about 1/50,000 times (assuming casters do everything they can to raise effective skill to 16). It may not be even something people worry about.

There's also the airliner analogy. If like professional pilots, professional spellcasters just make monthly Job rolls and the critical failure results are for adventure applications, then the entire problem is mostly moot.

Applying critical failure results to non-adventuring uses of other skills tends to produce similar results, too. Accidental demon summoning wizards are probably much less of a problem than accidental maimings and deaths from critical failures with weapons given the fun things on that table and the fact the professional warriors practice for hours a day (and therefore make thousands of rolls). Wizard practice probably involves less overall rolls in comparison.

[hal]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Demons show up about 1/50,000 times (assuming casters do everything they can to raise effective skill to 16). It may not be even something people worry about.

There's also the airliner analogy. If like professional pilots, professional spellcasters just make monthly Job rolls and the critical failure results are for adventure applications, then the entire problem is mostly moot.

Applying critical failure results to non-adventuring uses of other skills tends to produce similar results, too. Accidental demon summoning wizards are probably much less of a problem than accidental maimings and deaths from critical failures with weapons given the fun things on that table and the fact the professional warriors practice for hours a day (and therefore make thousands of rolls). Wizard practice probably involves less overall rolls in comparison.

Somehow - the idea that a demonic being suddenly appearing constitutes the same level of "concern" as a wagon accident maiming or killing someone doesn't seem to fall in the realm of human nature. :(

[hal]

Originally Posted by whswhs

A stock mage needs more than 75 points. I found 75 points just about right for PCs who were newly matriculated 14-year-old boys. If you want a Bachelor of Magic, 125 points may be about right.

Hmmm. That gives me pause to think. How about posting a 75 point stock mage?

I'll try to do the same at my end. In fact, I'll see if I can build a mage belonging to the Earth College who has gone through 6 years training and see if I can do it.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Demons show up about 1/50,000 times (assuming casters do everything they can to raise effective skill to 16). It may not be even something people worry about.

There's also the airliner analogy. If like professional pilots, professional spellcasters just make monthly Job rolls and the critical failure results are for adventure applications, then the entire problem is mostly moot.

Applying critical failure results to non-adventuring uses of other skills tends to produce similar results, too. Accidental demon summoning wizards are probably much less of a problem than accidental maimings and deaths from critical failures with weapons given the fun things on that table and the fact the professional warriors practice for hours a day (and therefore make thousands of rolls). Wizard practice probably involves less overall rolls in comparison.

As I understand it, that magic system was not made with the assumption that you could get the kinds of non-adventuring benefits for spellcasting which you can get for other skills. The calculations for the price of magic items don't include them and if there were such benefits casting dangerous spells like Wish would be much safer.

By the way, making job rolls much safer by greatly reducing the number of rolls, seem like a poor solution to me anyway. Why would a +5 TDM for a routine task make it safer than having a skill level five levels higher? Rather abandoning the rules of 17s failing and 18s being a critical failures regardless of effective skill level seems like a better and more general solution (and also one which can make play smother since you might not have to roll at all unless margin of success happen to be important).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by hal

Somehow - the idea that a demonic being suddenly appearing constitutes the same level of "concern" as a wagon accident maiming or killing someone doesn't seem to fall in the realm of human nature. :(

If the difference is one demon every spellcaster-millennium (assuming a spell per week) versus a significant percentage of the army dying in training everyday (assuming hours of weapons practice per day), then I suspect that people might be within the realm of human nature to care more about the latter than the former. My point really though is that applying combat results to noncombat rolls is absurd for swordsmen and by analogy probably ought to be absurd for wizards too.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by hal

Hmmm. That gives me pause to think. How about posting a 75 point stock mage?

Here is what I handed out in my campaign:

Students will be built on 75 character points. Players may take up to half that total as disadvantages, quirks, and negative characteristics. In other words, player characters may have positive traits with a value of up to 112 character points.

A typical starting character will look somewhat like this: ST 10 [0 points], DX 10 [0 points], IQ 12 [40 points], HT 10 [0 points], English (Native) [0 points), Latin (Accented) [4 points], Legal Immunity [10 points], Magery 1 [15 points], Status 2 [5 points], Wealthy [20 points], and Social Stigma (Minor) [-5 points], for a total of 89 points (94 positive minus 5 negative). This needs to be balanced by -14 points of disadvantages and quirks. They may take up to 18 more positive points and the same number of negative points. Of course the levels shown are only suggestions!

[hal]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Here is what I handed out in my campaign:

Students will be built on 75 character points. Players may take up to half that total as disadvantages, quirks, and negative characteristics. In other words, player characters may have positive traits with a value of up to 112 character points.

A typical starting character will look somewhat like this: ST 10 [0 points], DX 10 [0 points], IQ 12 [40 points], HT 10 [0 points], English (Native) [0 points), Latin (Accented) [4 points], Legal Immunity [10 points], Magery 1 [15 points], Status 2 [5 points], Wealthy [20 points], and Social Stigma (Minor) [-5 points], for a total of 89 points (94 positive minus 5 negative). This needs to be balanced by -14 points of disadvantages and quirks. They may take up to 18 more positive points and the same number of negative points. Of course the levels shown are only suggestions!

On one hand, I'd be tempted to say "ok, let's go with your starting assessment", but if we're talking about a day in the life of the city, we'd need "average" people who are doing magic - right?

Sure, no one would want to "Adventure" with such a mage, but wouldn't it be "wiser" to start with a lower default value for the run of the mill individuals who aren't suited to be adventurers, and if we want to bump things up from there, we can?

Using the rules as given for students progressing after roughly 8 month's training, 4 months off - it would seem that the difference between an "average individual" entering as a youth, would start off with essentially 10 stats across the board, little to no spells or skills, would gain about 4 x 4 or 16 points of "training" as a general rule. An advanced student would add two more years worth of skill acquisition. After that, a young master might be the Advanced student either teaching new students, or he might be working full time as a professional.

In light of that - would it be safe to say then, that we could go with:

75 points starting mage who is adventuring material
50 points starting mage who is nothing special, but more or less normal

Advanced students gain +8 points in training, and if they hire a tutor to teach during summer hours, gain the extra benefits of skills/training for those four months?

Just trying to get some concrete ideas on how to "emulate" the general population. With 420 students of varying schooling, all of the "masters" teaching the school stuff, and I have to presume that the city will have practioners who actively enage in commercial magic.

I just don't like to use 150 points for ALL of the big spell casters who are professionals or teachers or what have you. Not all of the mages will be "adventure material". Using the material in HOW TO BE A GURPS GM, most professionals might have their skills around 12 to 13 in their primary skills. So a Magery 1, IQ 10 mage, getting his best spell or skill up to 12 would likely be acceptable, and the secondary skills being what they are, would be lower.

So - ideas on how to make that happen? :)