Magical Life in Worminghall

[hal]

Well guys - trying to get this to move forward with the idea of "Try this with lesser point characters to see what can be accomplished" is not selling with this crowd, and I consider that to be a shame. If the lesser point mages can do some pretty interesting things - great. If it takes more points to accomplish that, also great (this being an exploration of concepts and all). But failing to actually explore what this thread was intended to do, that's a pity in my eyes.

So, when you reach an agreement on what "normal" people who happen to be able to cast spells should be like, then maybe you can get around to thinking about how "magic" can be integrated within society such as Bill envisioned when he first wrote Worminghall. Having a bunch of people show their creative side when working TOGETHER would have been awesome. As it is - this got bogged down in something as small as "normal people would be built on more points". Ok - then have at it, and set your values and go to town (so to speak) on trying to imagine what mages might achieve with their spells and their special capabilities. Point is? The closer to player character point levels you have these "Normal mages", the more exaggerated the effect becomes in that you're no longer exploring what the "lesser non-player characters" can or will achieve.

So, I'll back off from this simply because I can't sell the concept and get people on board. That's a failure on my part in trying to guide this thread in a particular direction while still leaving it in your hands to bring up ideas, build upon each other's ideas, identify issues that would be present, and then solve those issues as they're brought up. Instead, we're going to be stuck at the point of "Hmmm, most people who are taught magic will be brighter than the rest, or most people should have 100 points or what have you." Not "Hey, these spells would be profitable and likely to have a higher need in society" or "hey, if X spell castings will likely result in 1 demon showing up statistically speaking (using the spell backfire tables), what if each Mage was blessed on a daily basis to avoid that issue? Those not blessed, would have to cast spells in designated areas or must be cast at least 1 mile away from the city wall limits". That's looking to try and find out what it is like to LIVE within the Magical world of Worminghall.

<shrug>

[whswhs]

The thing is, your discussion of capabilities shows that you somewhat misunderstand the setting. Worminghall is based on medieval ideas about magic, which treated it as something learned mainly by consulting esoteric books in Latin, or often in Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, or even Persian. The idea of magic as a trade that could be learned through apprenticeship, or as a commercial enterprise, was not part of this particular universe of discourse. So appeals to the idea that ordinary IQ 10 people with an occupational skill would be a significant part of the population don't fit.

That's not to say that every student at Worminghall has IQ 12 and Magery 1. Rather, that's a good average or slightly above average level. You could perfectly well suppose that some students, maybe even many students, are lower than that. A student with IQ 12 and Magery 0, or with IQ 11 and Magery 1 (a bit of specialized talent), could probably do perfectly well at studying magic, and go on to become a practicing mage, and would cost 10 or 20 points less. One with IQ 11 and Magery 0 would be struggling a bit, and might drop out after the first four years (not uncommon for students in the Faculty of Arts at real universities), and then go on to have the kind of career you're thinking about.

On the other hand, my character sheet for the head of Merlin House, who is a veteran of a successful career as an adventurer, has him built on 250 points. He still has only IQ 12 and Magery 1; a lot of his points went into Dex 13, Combat Reflexes, and 35 points of soldier and spy skills that an ordinary mage wouldn't have. Not to mention 30 points in skills, half of them at the 2-point level, which is more than most academic mages would have. So I think that 75 points is a bit low for an "adventurer." In taking the 75-point template for a student to be an "adventurer" template you seem to be overlooking the middle ground between ordinary, slightly bright professionals, and heroic figures.

But the point of my giving my PC template was to suggest a starting point for design. Not to say that you couldn't cut it down to portray a less capable and/or less privileged student! Or, for that matter, cut down parts and raise other parts to portray a somewhat unusual and interesting student. I'm just suggesting that you do this within the framework of "mages are intellectuals and usually socially privileged." That's the model in Worminghall. Or come up with an alternate setting where magic is more fully integrated into society, though such a setting isn't going to look nearly as "medieval."

[hal]

Originally Posted by whswhs

But the point of my giving my PC template was to suggest a starting point for design. Not to say that you couldn't cut it down to portray a less capable and/or less privileged student! Or, for that matter, cut down parts and raise other parts to portray a somewhat unusual and interesting student. I'm just suggesting that you do this within the framework of "mages are intellectuals and usually socially privileged." That's the model in Worminghall. Or come up with an alternate setting where magic is more fully integrated into society, though such a setting isn't going to look nearly as "medieval."

A few thoughts further in response to your statement above...

When does magic "show up"? Is it a late thing where magic was less reliable or not as widespread, and societies mature much as they did historically? That's one approach.

If magic has always been around, and has been integrated within society from the EARLY days of unrecorded history, then yes, the world will develop differently.

One could imagine a world in which mageborn with the gift become automatic slaves, pampered to be sure, but none the less, slaves of the Head of State. Such a monopoly of manpower and talent would not be unthinkable. In another possible scenario, magic use instills fear in those whom magic is not possible. Having a demon pop up unexpectedly would only make matters worse. That would be like having to live on the edge of an old minefield that is mostly cleared, but every once in a while, a mine goes off to prove that it hasn't been entirely cleared. Man is an unusual beast at times. Living on a dormant volcano or within reach of one - especially when quiet, doesn't seem dangerous. But when smoke starts curling up - it doesn't occur to people that it may wake up? And if the smoke goes away, they can ignore their pending peril as a seemingly DUMB choice right?

But here's the rub. You can build a movie set, make it look real, put actors on the stage, and film the whole thing making it seem real right? Who BUILDS an entire movie set with real buildings, makes real people live within those buildings, and then hires only a few "actors" to focus on for the movie?

But what happens when a camera accidentally exposes the fact that the facades of buildings are fake?

Take the Village map proper. 2 square miles using the original scale on the map for a mere 9600 people living within its boundaries caused some to question the "façade" just a little. it also caused someone to try and edit that annoying (to them) unexpected peek behind the façade, so that they could maintain the illusion as it were.

But - how many GM's actively portray JUST the events in a supplement, and force their players to stay within those boundaries saying "The world ends here"? How many GM's are willing to dig up a real map of England around the 1300's just so that they can let their players wander whither their imagination takes them, and explore the world that way? Someone comes down the river to buy the wool. What if a player wishes to head out with the rivermen?

What if a player decides after 4 years of study, that he wants advanced study? From there, he decides rather than set up shop teaching students as a master, he sets up shop selling his services?

So - exploring the city MORE than was given in the supplement might be worth considering if one wishes to turn the supplement into an actual fleshed out gaming world. That however, is not going to happen it seems. I'm not interested in the player characters as GM. THEY control the actions of their characters. I'm interested (as a world builder and as a GM tasked with making the world seem real) in the NPCs. Just as the Heroes are built on the larger point totals, the NPCs tend to be lesser beings. I can't believe that all mageborn are super intelligent. I can't believe that all students who attend the University have an IQ of 12+, and that those who succeed in their studies are all IQ 10+.

Just taking an IQ 9 Magery 1 character - rolling using Fantasy Grounds 2 die generator versus an adjusted target value of 10, gives me sufficient results that the character gained (thanks to two crit successes) a total of 3460 hours of study value, or a bit over 17 points worth of skills/spells. That was for two years. If he's got an IQ of 9, broken Latin, etc. Without those crit successes, he'd likely be about 600 hours short of the list, and only have 13 spells or skills to show for his endeavor.

That doesn't include any bonuses he might get for a talent in public speaking for his public contests, or anything else.

Average people manage to pass school and/or college education - they just don't SHINE like the more educated or better educated or even those whose abilities are just superior (ie a higher IQ stat).

Now, that kind of non-player character would be more of the "salt of the earth" type of individual. He'd be rolling against a skill 10 for much of the spells he'd have. He'd need latin to a degree, any any non-magical spell knowledge as is necessary. He'd have familiarization with the city at the very least, or even some area knowledge skills picked up during the summer vacations. He might be determined to make up for his lacks by spending time over the summer practicing, etc. Point is, he'd likely graduate at the bottom of his class and STILL have to make a living somehow. Would you want THIS character to have to fight the demon from GURPS MAGIC for 4e on page 155 (I think it is that page)? Probably not. Would he function well in a stressful environment like an adventure? Likely not. Would he live a quiet life in Worminghall? If he wasn't an idiot people wise, eyup.

;)

Now, will there be the smarter ones? Sure. Are all men created equal (Constitution aside)? Clearly not.

So - if Worminghall isn't worth exploring in depth and it should remain little more than a location for filming with its façade of buildings, the illusion of streets, and one doesn't dare go anywhere that exposes all of that, so be it.

But for me? Knowing WHEN magic becomes a FORCE in the world of Worminghall is important. Knowing how society views the mageborn, especially in light of what will come later in history that is known as the Spanish Inquisition, and later on, the Salem witch trials - those occurred without people demonstrably being able to cast spells. That human behavior occurred despite there not being visible demons showing up to add to human misery. Imagine what human nature would do to the poor idiots who mess up the first time and a demon appears? "Burn him" might be one likely response in a Christian based society (won't comment on others!).

On that note - I think we can safely say this thread isn't going to go anywhere I'd like to see it go. No biggie.