[MA] Grab & Smash and Sound of one hand Grappling

[Ultraviolet]

I quite like the Grab & Smash found on MA118 but the insert box makes no mention of how The Sound of one hand Grappling MA116 figures into things.


And neither do any of the Techniques, Perks or Hit Location instances where this nasty trick is mentioned.

Anyhoo, the AoA Double needed for this trick needs to first perform a Grapple followed by striking, kicking said part or ramming into a soklid object or another foe.

Following logic the inital Grapple is modified for Hit Location for grappling other parts than Torso. E.g. the head.

But if you use the Uppercut from a Clinch you'd need to perform a one handed Grapple in order to have a free hand for this, right? I don't see any reason this trick gets off easy on the Grapple. And things happen within the span of a second, so I don't see it possible to Grapple with both hands, and suddenly let go in order to punch.

On the other hand, if you Grapple the head for a Knee Strike, you don't need a free hand to punch and can use both hands to grab. And that should be different than the grab-and-punch.

How do people see this?

[DeathDaisy]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the question?

If you are gonna punch someone, you have to grapple them with one hand and use the other to punch. If you are gonna knee them you can use two. One handed grapples are a thing, so you don't have to grapple with both and let go in the same second. What part is getting off easy?

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by DeathDaisy

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the question?

If you are gonna punch someone, you have to grapple them with one hand and use the other to punch. If you are gonna knee them you can use two. One handed grapples are a thing, so you don't have to grapple with both and let go in the same second. What part is getting off easy?

The rules for Smash and Grab does not mention modifiers for using only one hand. I assume this is enforced for grappling with one hand and punching with the other, because otherwise I expected to see a clear exception for this rule.
But the absence of mention of the -2 for one-handed grapple could be because it is assumed you grapple with both hands either way, but let go with one hand to punch? I don't like this option, seems too fast for a one second action.

But I'm wondering if I'm missing something. I mean, the rules for Smash and grab already gives the effects of both AoA Double (grab+punch) as well as Strong (+2 dam). So it's already better than grappling in one round and punching in the next (except you retain defense for this method).

[DeathDaisy]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

The rules for Smash and Grab does not mention modifiers for using only one hand. I assume this is enforced for grappling with one hand and punching with the other, because otherwise I expected to see a clear exception for this rule.
But the absence of mention of the -2 for one-handed grapple could be because it is assumed you grapple with both hands either way, but let go with one hand to punch? I don't like this option, seems too fast for a one second action.

But I'm wondering if I'm missing something. I mean, the rules for Smash and grab already gives the effects of both AoA Double (grab+punch) as well as Strong (+2 dam). So it's already better than grappling in one round and punching in the next (except you retain defense for this method).

Aha, I think I understand what you're referring to! The -2 in sound of one hand grappling does, as far as I can tell, only apply to grappling techniques like limb lock and such, not the actual grapple itself. So you can grapple and punch over two turns with one hand as well without penalties. The downside of one-hand grappling is that it's easier to escape and harder to exert force, not the holding itself.

As usual I might well be wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me in that case, but I think that's how it works.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

I don't see it possible to Grapple with both hands, and suddenly let go in order to punch.

I don't have a problem with this. Letting go of something you're holding is a free action. The initial grapple with two hands isn't any easier than doing it with one, so I'm not sure there is functional difference anyway. As the previous poster, DeathDaisy, said, the disadvantage of using only one hand isn't in applying the grapple, it's in holding it from then on: you get a +5 in the Quick Contest of ST if you're using two hands (B371).

[Ultraviolet]

Ah, thank you very much Forum and especially DeathDaisy

MA116 "The Sound of One Hand Grappling" refers to -2 DX and ½ST for one-handed performance of grappling techniques e.g holds and locks not the initial, basic grapple itself.

However - as the insert box clearly says - the one-handed grappler can't claim the +5 ST in Break Free contests that his two-handed counterpart would have.

Also, Captain Joy mentions that releasing a hand is a free action on your own turn, and adding a hand is a free action at the start of your own turn.

So a brawler can AoA-Double grab-and-smash to perform a Grapple to the Face (1) followed by an Uppercut to the Face (2). He can then choose to let go or keep holding on.
Foe can now try to Break Free, but Brawler does *not* have +5 ST. He would have if he had grappled with both hands for a Head Butt or Knee Strike.
Round two (if he still holds on) Brawler can now as a free action at the start of his turn add a hand, in order to perform grappling techniques without penalty.

1) Hit lcoation modifier for Grappling are halved, and since GURPS roundsd down it is -2 to grapple the face
2) But is this strike at full Hit Location penalty, or does it count as a "grappling move" for reduced penalties? IMHO no, since "Kiss the Wall" states full penalties for ramming a foe's head into a wall, even though Sumo or Wrestling is used.