Being Disturbing the Right Way

JCD · 09-29-2010, 07:11 PM

How would you reform the Disturbance rules so that you do not need to refer to a chart constantly to figure out the range.

Basic math is acceptable.

Or do you feel a chart IS the best way to do it?

robkelk · 09-29-2010, 07:31 PM

Charts are awkward, if only because you have to have a copy of the chart handy if you want to use the rule.

I'd say "Roll Perception, plus points of of Disturbance done, minus number of (units) away from the event, to sense the Disturbance". I'm not sure whether "(units)" should be "feet", "yards", "miles", or something else, but I like yards or meters (close enough to equal for game use) as a gut feeling...

Jennifer · 09-29-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCD

How would you reform the Disturbance rules so that you do not need to refer to a chart constantly to figure out the range.

Basic math is acceptable.

Or do you feel a chart IS the best way to do it?

IIRC, the total range varies as the square of the disturbance. (Range increment varies as disturbance, but the number of increments also varies as disturbance.) So you don't want the penalties to very linearly with constant units.

But how often do you know the exact location of every celestial in the city to calculate precise ranges? (And yes, it can get citywide. I was in a scene once with 84 disturbance and an Intervention.)

I'd be inclined to handwave it as "20 disturbance for each step of scope: same room, same building, block, neighborhood, city" or something like that, so everyone in the same room rolls Perception + disturbance, but everyone in the same city (but different neighborhoods) is at -40.

Rocket Man · 09-29-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robkelk

Charts are awkward, if only because you have to have a copy of the chart handy if you want to use the rule.

I'd say "Roll Perception, plus points of of Disturbance done, minus number of (units) away from the event, to sense the Disturbance". I'm not sure whether "(units)" should be "feet", "yards", "miles", or something else, but I like yards or meters (close enough to equal for game use) as a gut feeling...

I agree that it sounds right on first blush, but in practice, I think it nerfs the ability.

Danny Demon kills a human with 2 Corporeal Forces. (+12 Disturbance, assuming no collateral damage). Alice Angel with 12 Perception automatically hears the action if she's within 12 yards and has no Infernal Interventions; make it happen 20 yards away and she has almost no chance of hearing it at all.

Now that may be the effect you want. But it's a far cry from what she'd be able to do in canon.

robkelk · 09-29-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

I agree that it sounds right on first blush, but in practice, I think it nerfs the ability.

Danny Demon kills a human with 2 Corporeal Forces. (+12 Disturbance, assuming no collateral damage). Alice Angel with 12 Perception automatically hears the action if she's within 12 yards and has no Infernal Interventions; make it happen 20 yards away and she has almost no chance of hearing it at all.

Now that may be the effect you want. But it's a far cry from what she'd be able to do in canon.

And switching "yards" to "miles" makes the ability too powerful... <sigh> Anybody have a better idea than mine?

Andygal · 09-29-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robkelk

And switching "yards" to "miles" makes the ability too powerful... <sigh> Anybody have a better idea than mine?

use metric, like everybody except you silly Yankees does, and go with 10 meters as the base distance?

Jennifer · 09-29-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robkelk

And switching "yards" to "miles" makes the ability too powerful... <sigh> Anybody have a better idea than mine?

Change it to sqrt(yards). From Rocket Man's example, 20 yards away? That's just a -4 or -5, and Alice is looking at a TN of 24 before the range penalty. But at 400 yards, Alice has to be darn lucky to hear it.

Jason · 09-29-2010, 09:10 PM

Okay, just to establish a baseline here, by canon rules, if you've got a celestial with 4 Celestial Forces and 8 Perception…

You have a +1 chance of hearing a single Essence being (1 disturbance) spent up to 4 yards away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 32 yards away.
You have a +20 chance of hearing a Superior show up in corporeal form (20 disturbance) up to 4 yards away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 108 yards away.

In short, even a really loud disturbance will be hard to detect from more than a football field away, but it may still be detectable. How to represent this without having to do so much math or consult a chart?

How about a modification to the above mentioned house rule: Only start penalizing the roll when you are further than some base distance, as in the canon rule. The formula looks like: Roll (Perception + Disturbance), –1 for each yard above (Disturbance) yards away. With the same above celestial with 8 Perception…

You have a +1 chance of hearing a single Essence being (1 disturbance) spent up to 1 yard away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 8 yards away.
You have a +20 chance of hearing a Superior show up in corporeal form (20 disturbance) up to 20 yards away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 27 yards away.

Hmm. Much more limiting, and not that much less math. And personally, I don't like thinking about the complications involved in different maximum distances for different characters. Must return to this later...

Jason · 09-29-2010, 09:20 PM

Quick, alternate idea: common detectability distances for disturbances.

Any disturbance can be detected within (10 × Disturbance) yards. Anyone within that range gets a Perception roll to detect, with any disturbance over 10 being automatically detectable. So...

You have a chance of hearing a single Essence (1 disturbance) being spent up to 10 yards away, and no chance of hearing it from further away.
You will DEFINITELY hear a Superior show up in corporeal form (20 disturbance) up to 200 yards away, but no chance of hearing it from further away.

Not quite accurate with canon, but the nice thing (well, I think it's nice) is that it makes minor Essence expenditures and Songs more subtle, and makes summoning a Superior or killing a human a really big deal.

Being "faint" or "loud" due to proximity in this case is entirely a matter of description rather than game mechanics. I think the GMG suggests something similar to this, now that I think on it, but I forget the exact rule...

JCD · 09-30-2010, 12:39 AM

How about this:

(Disturbance) squared x 3 for automatic detection.

The size of the Disturbance is the basic range. Beyond automatic range, -1 per unit of basic range.

Phin sings Healing on himself. Disturbance 1 from Essence.

(1) squared x 3. So he is automatically detectable at 3 yards. For every yard (basic range Disturbance) beyond that, the listener is at a -1. So a perception 6 demon could not hear it at all 9 yards away, but a perception 12 angel gets a roll of 6 or less at the same range.

Belial shows up Celestially (Disturbance 30)

(30 x 30) x 3. 2700 yards. Anyone within almost a mile and half gets to hear it. But once you reach that threshold, things drop off quickly. Every additional 30 yards gives a -1 to perception.

I would prefer to make 'basic range' the disturbance x3 per -1 but I don't want to make things too complex. So every 3 yards with a one disturbance would give a drop off of -1. This would extend the hearing range to 21 yards for a 'normal' Celestial. For the Belial example, a normal Celestial could hear it another 540 yards...maybe.

09-29-2010, 07:11 PM	#1
JCD Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet	Being Disturbing the Right Way How would you reform the Disturbance rules so that you do not need to refer to a chart constantly to figure out the range. Basic math is acceptable. Or do you feel a chart IS the best way to do it?

09-29-2010, 07:31 PM	#2
robkelk Untitled Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: between keyboard and chair	Re: Being Disturbing the Right Way Charts are awkward, if only because you have to have a copy of the chart handy if you want to use the rule. I'd say "Roll Perception, plus points of of Disturbance done, minus number of (units) away from the event, to sense the Disturbance". I'm not sure whether "(units)" should be "feet", "yards", "miles", or something else, but I like yards or meters (close enough to equal for game use) as a gut feeling... __________________ Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly.

09-29-2010, 09:10 PM	#8
Jason Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Boston, MA	Re: Being Disturbing the Right Way Okay, just to establish a baseline here, by canon rules, if you've got a celestial with 4 Celestial Forces and 8 Perception… You have a +1 chance of hearing a single Essence being (1 disturbance) spent up to 4 yards away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 32 yards away. You have a +20 chance of hearing a Superior show up in corporeal form (20 disturbance) up to 4 yards away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 108 yards away. In short, even a really loud disturbance will be hard to detect from more than a football field away, but it may still be detectable. How to represent this without having to do so much math or consult a chart? How about a modification to the above mentioned house rule: Only start penalizing the roll when you are further than some base distance, as in the canon rule. The formula looks like: Roll (Perception + Disturbance), –1 for each yard above (Disturbance) yards away. With the same above celestial with 8 Perception… You have a +1 chance of hearing a single Essence being (1 disturbance) spent up to 1 yard away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 8 yards away. You have a +20 chance of hearing a Superior show up in corporeal form (20 disturbance) up to 20 yards away, and at least a small chance (roll 2) to hear it up to 27 yards away. Hmm. Much more limiting, and not that much less math. And personally, I don't like thinking about the complications involved in different maximum distances for different characters. Must return to this later...

09-29-2010, 09:20 PM	#9
Jason Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Boston, MA	Re: Being Disturbing the Right Way Quick, alternate idea: common detectability distances for disturbances. Any disturbance can be detected within (10 × Disturbance) yards. Anyone within that range gets a Perception roll to detect, with any disturbance over 10 being automatically detectable. So... You have a chance of hearing a single Essence (1 disturbance) being spent up to 10 yards away, and no chance of hearing it from further away. You will DEFINITELY hear a Superior show up in corporeal form (20 disturbance) up to 200 yards away, but no chance of hearing it from further away. Not quite accurate with canon, but the nice thing (well, I think it's nice) is that it makes minor Essence expenditures and Songs more subtle, and makes summoning a Superior or killing a human a really big deal. Being "faint" or "loud" due to proximity in this case is entirely a matter of description rather than game mechanics. I think the GMG suggests something similar to this, now that I think on it, but I forget the exact rule...

09-30-2010, 12:39 AM	#10
JCD Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet	Re: Being Disturbing the Right Way How about this: (Disturbance) squared x 3 for automatic detection. The size of the Disturbance is the basic range. Beyond automatic range, -1 per unit of basic range. Phin sings Healing on himself. Disturbance 1 from Essence. (1) squared x 3. So he is automatically detectable at 3 yards. For every yard (basic range Disturbance) beyond that, the listener is at a -1. So a perception 6 demon could not hear it at all 9 yards away, but a perception 12 angel gets a roll of 6 or less at the same range. Belial shows up Celestially (Disturbance 30) (30 x 30) x 3. 2700 yards. Anyone within almost a mile and half gets to hear it. But once you reach that threshold, things drop off quickly. Every additional 30 yards gives a -1 to perception. I would prefer to make 'basic range' the disturbance x3 per -1 but I don't want to make things too complex. So every 3 yards with a one disturbance would give a drop off of -1. This would extend the hearing range to 21 yards for a 'normal' Celestial. For the Belial example, a normal Celestial could hear it another 540 yards...maybe.