Outcasts, Renegades, spirits, Soldiers and CP.

[PenitentDemon]

something I've been thinking of for a bit... a major part of advancement in the default in nomine setting is based on rewards from superiors.

Any idea how it will work with outcastes (who are on the run)

or Spirits, and mortals who will RARELY meet a superior


is it just natural their advancement should be slower, or am I missing something?

[fwcain]

Certain rewards (for ex.: additional Attunements) require direct contact with the relevant Superior.

New Songs and Skills should require a teacher, someone (not necessarily a Superior) who already knows the Song or Skill, and is willing and able to teach it to the Outcast desiring it. However, existing Songs and Skills (that is, Songs and Skills already known by the Outcast) should be OK for improvement, without the help of a teacher.

I would not allow additional Forces to be gained, save only by the slow method of improving the associated Attributes (i.e., once an Outcast has added four points total between Strength and Agility, he gains another Corporeal Force).

[Jason]

I run a relatively low-powered campaign that deals with this. The PCs include three Renegade demons, two humans, and an ethereal spirit, all around 7 Forces. They all get a bunch of extra character points to start with so they're pretty powerful for 6-7 Force beings according to the default rules, but this is because there are no Archangels or Princes directly employing them, so nobody is going to be getting Forces anytime soon. (I tell them that they shouldn't even bother putting points into stats with the expectation that they will get Forces, as we probably won't have a year or more of "game time" for that to result in the reward they're looking for.)

That said, my players do have a sponsor of sorts: the mysterious proprietor of a local occult shop. He provides a place for them to discuss plans (and play poker), and refers them to citizens looking for freelance "paranormal consultants." And, when they reflect well on him, he teaches them Songs. They still have no idea what kind of being he is, and he seems a little crazy, so it's never clear how much power he really has to give them big gifts. (EDIT to add: I also meant for him to be able to procure them artifacts, but one of the PCs is actually an antiquities dealer in her day job, so everyone's welcome to spend points between adventures to get artifacts through her! And anyone can spend points on skills in this game without needing a superior.)

And, even though my players' PCs were not working directly for any Prince, in my far-afield-from-canon setting, one Prince in particular (Valefor) has offered PCs access to his attunements, and another just handed them a bunch of relic quarters with the "Insert Coin to Continue" attunement in them. Fortunately, my players understand that it SHOULD make them extremely uncomfortable that two Demon Princes who hate each other are both vying for the attention of a group of players that considers itself "the good guys."

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Jason

I run a relatively low-powered campaign that deals with this. The PCs include three Renegade demons, two humans, and an ethereal spirit, all around 7 Forces. They all get a bunch of extra character points to start with so they're pretty powerful for 6-7 Force beings according to the default rules, but this is because there are no Archangels or Princes directly employing them, so nobody is going to be getting Forces anytime soon. (I tell them that they shouldn't even bother putting points into stats with the expectation that they will get Forces, as we probably won't have a year or more of "game time" for that to result in the reward they're looking for.)

That said, my players do have a sponsor of sorts: the mysterious proprietor of a local occult shop. He provides a place for them to discuss plans (and play poker), and refers them to citizens looking for freelance "paranormal consultants." And, when they reflect well on him, he teaches them Songs. They still have no idea what kind of being he is, and he seems a little crazy, so it's never clear how much power he really has to give them big gifts. (EDIT to add: I also meant for him to be able to procure them artifacts, but one of the PCs is actually an antiquities dealer in her day job, so everyone's welcome to spend points between adventures to get artifacts through her! And anyone can spend points on skills in this game without needing a superior.)

And, even though my players' PCs were not working directly for any Prince, in my far-afield-from-canon setting, one Prince in particular (Valefor) has offered PCs access to his attunements, and another just handed them a bunch of relic quarters with the "Insert Coin to Continue" attunement in them. Fortunately, my players understand that it SHOULD make them extremely uncomfortable that two Demon Princes who hate each other are both vying for the attention of a group of players that considers itself "the good guys."

And I'm sure Lilith would still be willing to cut one of them a deal, yes? (evil grin)

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

And I'm sure Lilith would still be willing to cut one of them a deal, yes? (evil grin)

She already has. They just don't know it yet. ;) I figure if ANYBODY has a Geas on you, there's always a chance it ends up passing through Lilith's hands...

[Matthias Wasser]

I like to think of Attunements as "good tricks" one can naturally develop, so I don't think it breaks anything in the setting for them to be generally available. (I wouldn't extend this to Soldiers, but if you're trying to balance them and Celestials you have bigger problems.)

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Matthias Wasser

I like to think of Attunements as "good tricks" one can naturally develop, so I don't think it breaks anything in the setting for them to be generally available. (I wouldn't extend this to Soldiers, but if you're trying to balance them and Celestials you have bigger problems.)

Different strokes for different folks -- I run them as refinements of a Superior's Word that must be granted by the Superior. But it's not Bad Wrong Fun to do it another way.

[Azel]

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

something I've been thinking of for a bit... a major part of advancement in the default in nomine setting is based on rewards from superiors.

Any idea how it will work with outcastes (who are on the run)

or Spirits, and mortals who will RARELY meet a superior


is it just natural their advancement should be slower, or am I missing something?

Well, survival is its own reward in a way. Outcasts/Renegades are not in the position to sit out the War and eat popcorn watching the show. I'm sure any Grigori left are probably more focused on staying alive than storing kudos points for forces and the like.

But then, as a GM, I'm not like "The Giving Tree."

Rewards for success, maybe a single point for minimal participation in the background, punishments for failure, I'm OK with. But if you're a lump there not interacting, I don't "owe you" at least 1 CP for being a place holder. And the same goes for minions who choose to roleplay on the Celestial Poo-Poo list. Survival is its own reward, in lieu of a beat down.

However, I am pretty generous with learning Skills and in-game roleplay rewards. So vital information, tenuous contacts, allies of convenience, Knowledge Skills, etc. are rewards earned from in-game activity -- and don't always translate easily into CP. Basically it's a leash against PCs taking any old favor and turning it into raw power, a la munchkinism.

Ethereal spirits, they have their own prerogative (and character generation system), so I let them cash in CP pretty evenly as Celestials. They don't need a Superior, sometimes they just learn stuff from experience (or fiat, like the Songs of Exchange). Since they're so desperate for vessels however, and Celestials love smashing their vessels, it's pretty much a wash. I don't have to worry about Ethereals hoarding great amounts of CP, at a loss where to cash in; they're rather busy hoarding Essence for their next vessel!

Unallied Mortals receive roughly the same treatment as Ethereals, except they don't get access to neat celestial toys nearly as easily. Them's the perks of being an allied Soldier or mortal flunky. You may not get the rare 3+ CP in a session, but then you aren't asked to risk your very existence all that often either (some might call this a very fair trade!).

Again, let unallied mortals gain Skills, through hard effort or night classes or whatever, and let them collect a vast array. Skills are one of the better equalizers between Celestials and Mortals. And let them cash in CP for force building at a rather sensible pace (no boosting Strength by 3 points in under a month, or other nonsense).

But other than that, songs, attunements, etc. should be significantly hard (or impossible) to come by for "mere mortals". The only exception I have for this is artifacts. But that is because I assume a human tinkering with their newly purchased artifact is just asking for celestial attention. I won't take away their paid for artifact... immediately. But I will let it peal like a steeple bell attracting all sorts of roleplaying hooks. ;) Hey, you knew OOC what you were getting into, boo-boo -- I just thought this is what you want!

[PenitentDemon]

what about Celestial Spirits, (sorry I was thinking of them not etherals)

best just to let Whoever they answer to act as a stand in? Can a Archangel/demon prince "channel" an attunement or such without a personal meeting , I havent seen anything that says either way but it does seem likely.


(Just got my copy of heaven and hell yesterday... found out I did things wrong in my game lol... only a superior can create vessels, except if a celestial is in Limbo.)