Tying Spell Energy Discounts to Points Spent in Skill

[martinl]

Right now we discount spell costs by 1 FP at skill 15, 2 at skill 20, etc. What would happen if we stole a trick from weapon master and required skill at IQ+Magery-1 (AND skill 15) for the first FP discount, skill at IQ+Magery (and skill 20) for the second, and so on?

I think this would make the oodles of spells at 1 pt types spend a little more on their favorite spells, and nerf the high end mages with IQ+Magery-2 >19 a little, both of which I think are laudable. The nerf on IQ+Magery-2=15 GURPS standard mage is no so terrible I think.

Wot thinkest all y'all?

[Anthony]

I would delete the skill level requirements totally:
IQ+Magery-3: ritual as skill 9-, no cost reduction
IQ+Magery-2: ritual as skill 10-14, no cost reduction
IQ+Magery-1: ritual as skill 15-19, no cost reduction
IQ+Magery+0: ritual as skill 15-19, 1 point cost reduction, can use ceremonial magic.
IQ+Magery+1 points: ritual as skill 20-24, 1 point cost reduction
IQ+Magery+2: ritual as skill 20-24, 2 points cost reduction
and so on, alternating ritual reduction and cost reduction. If this seems too fast, the rate past (IQ+Magery+0) can be adjusted, but I don't actually think it's a balance problem even like this.

[Dolarre]

I do this in my games, for exactly the reasons you mention.

In my games if base skill with a spell is known at IQ + Magery + 1, reduce the cost to cast the spell by 1. If known at +3, reduce cost by 2. Cost continues to decrease by 1 per full three skill levels beyond (That is at +6, +9, +12, etc.).

I adjust casting time if a spell is known at IQ + Magery +2. The time to
cast is halved, rounded up to the nearest whole number. Halve again if the spell is known at IQ + Magery +4. For every three levels of skill beyond (That is at +7, +10, +13, etc.) halve casting time again.

In addition, I allow Symbol Drawing to potentially further reduce cost. Before casting, the magician spends 10 seconds drawing the appropriate symbols to a spell (which must be declared); on a success, he or she may reduce the energy cost to cast that spell by one. So long as the symbols remain undisturbed and visible to the caster, the cost to maintain that spell is also reduced by one. If the margin of success is 5 or greater, the cost reductions are increased to 2. Each increase of margin of success by an additional 5 results in an additional point of energy reduction: 3 energy at 10, 4 at 15, etc. Critical Success halves the energy required to cast if that provides more of a discount than margin of success. Failure adds one to the energy cost to cast (and to the cost to maintain, but the caster will almost always wipe the flawed symbols away before maintenance is required. Critical failure prevents the caster from casting the intended spell for 1d hours. Extra time and haste apply to the Symbol Drawing roll, which is always the lower of his Symbol Drawing skill and the caster’s skill in the spell to be cast.

It works very well.

[evileeyore]

I see no reason to include Magery in the calculation at all. Just treat it as a Talent, it adds at the end of skill calculations (and of course is needed for prereqs).

Thus (stealing Anthony's chart):
IQ-3: ritual as skill 9-, no FP reduction
IQ-2: ritual as skill 10-14, no FP reduction
IQ-1: ritual as skill 15-19, no FP reduction
IQ+0: ritual as skill 15-19, 1 FP reduction, can use ceremonial magic
IQ+1: ritual as skill 20-24, 1 FP reduction
IQ+2: ritual as skill 20-24, 2 FP reduction

[AlexanderHowl]

I am of the opinion that higher levels of Magery should not give skill bonuses but, instead, should reduce the cost of spell. How about having each level of Magery reduce the energy cost of a spell by one? Mages would reduce the energy cost and casting time as suggested by the previous posts.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I am of the opinion that higher levels of Magery should not give skill bonuses but, instead, should reduce the cost of spell. How about having each level of Magery reduce the energy cost of a spell by one? Mages would reduce the energy cost and casting time as suggested by the previous posts.

That's an awesome advantage, but you still need a magic talent. I'd use an energy reducing advantage (perhaps at 20/level or 15/level) alongside a talent that increases spell skill.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I see no reason to include Magery in the calculation at all.

It's included in the formula because otherwise it would be overpowered at 10 points per level. The intent is to link points in skill to cost and not give 'free' discounts for high IQ or Magery.

[AlexanderHowl]

Which is why I think the formula for effective skill for determining ritual effects for the standard magical system should be equal to 15 + (Spell - [IQ + Magery]), allowing the CP invested in the spell by a character to matter more than the intelligence or Magery of the character. In non-standard magical systems, the exact formula would be different, but the principle would be the same.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's included in the formula because otherwise it would be overpowered at 10 points per level. The intent is to link points in skill to cost and not give 'free' discounts for high IQ or Magery.

Note, my advice was not just to exclude it from the formula, but from the skill 'level' consideration, adding in only at the skill usage point...

But that's probably just more steps than anyone but me finds useful. But as that is how Talents are meant to be used*, it's why I suggested it.



IE, if you have a Talent that adds to Sumo Wrestling, it isn't counted towards whether you've hit DX+1 or not. And technically "adding after skill level calculations"is backwards, but some of my Players couldn't wrap their heads intuitively around "adds to Stat before skill" so I swapped it to "adds at the end as a bonus", since everyone at my table grasps that at an instinctive level.