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08-18-2014, 08:01 AM | #1 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scratch?
Greetings, all!
I remember a thread for the haggling rules in Social Engineering, where some people argued that the rules occasionally produce dubious results. I don't remember all of it, and am not sure if the proposed solutions fixed the weaknesses of the system. I find the mechanics somewhat overcomplicated. I also once started a thread on Basic Set haggling rules, as I'm very unsure whether I understand them properly. IIRC there wasn't much in the way of clarification. ---- That being said, I'm asking: do you, forumites, find the two haggling systems convenient and sensible? If not, are there any house-rule alternatives that are simpler / less prone to anomalous results that have been mentioned in the earlier discussions? Thanks in advance! |
08-18-2014, 08:19 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
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Personally, I'd rather use a Regular Contest for haggling; it's always depicted as being somewhat lengthy. |
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08-18-2014, 08:25 AM | #3 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
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Last edited by vicky_molokh; 08-19-2014 at 07:55 AM. |
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08-18-2014, 08:30 AM | #4 | |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
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If you're not, then I'll be happy to share it in this thread - it's quite brief. |
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08-18-2014, 08:35 AM | #5 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
Vaguely familiar; IIRC it's also touched upon in some of the Low-Tech Pyramid articles. But I'd rather stick for the basics first, and start working with categories later.
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08-18-2014, 05:05 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
Wow... I am really confused after reading that.
Is that page citation correct? Or am I just misunderstanding it (or rather, have been misusing it this whole time). I thought "B" meant "Basic Set", so B650 would be Basic Set Campaigns p. 560. Looking at that page, its mostly the Reaction Table with very little underneath it, and I'm not seeing that the cited text. So... where should I be looking? ^^'
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
08-18-2014, 05:14 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
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__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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08-19-2014, 07:56 AM | #8 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
Quote:
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08-19-2014, 08:54 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
The rules for commercial transaction reactions appear to assume that the PCs start off by proposing a price, and the NPC reacts. If the NPC were to open with a price, the reaction roll would, at best, be a general reaction roll based on the PCs' looks and behavior.
"If the players vary their offer, determine the NPC’s counteroffer based on the proposed price instead of the fair price, if that is less favorable to the PCs." Look at the proposed price and the fair price. Whichever is less favorable to the PCs, apply the NPC reaction to that one. "If they ask 120% of the fair price and get a “Bad” reaction, the NPC will offer half of that, or 50%." In this case the PCs are selling to the NPC. The NPC rolled a Bad reaction, which calls for the NPC to be willing to pay only half price. Because the PCs are selling, 100% is less favorable to them, so we continue to use fair price in the reaction, so the NPC will only pay half 100%, or 50%. The "that" must refer to "fair price." "If the players vary their offer..." I think this means if the players open with an offer that isn't 100% of fair price. Since the rule has you comparing fair price with proposed price, it obviously won't come into play if the two are the same. It seems odd to have an example that doesn't demonstrate the rule because it fails the test built into the rule. Clearly, all of this has nothing to do with the rule on p. B209. Perhaps the latter is a leftover from an earlier edition? I don't have my books handy to check. One thing I note, however, is that the method using reaction rolls doesn't account for the merchant's skill at all. I think I'd do this: for quick resolution where you're not too concerned about the price, use the Quick Contest method. When you're most interested in pitting the NPC's skill against the PC's skill, use a Regular Contest with the same ±10% adjustment. When you care most about what price you get, use the reaction method. |
08-19-2014, 09:34 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Merchant / Haggling: Clarification/cleanup of current rules vs remaking from scra
Quote:
Bill Stoddard |
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Tags |
basic set, haggling, merchant, social engineering |
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