Lecherousness & Bisexuality

[Ulzgoroth]

You don't have to find a receptive audience for Lecherousness to go badly for you. A non-receptive audience can easily go worse. A man hitting on lots of straight men isn't very likely to get laid, but they might well get severely beaten. Pretty sure that's a well-known phenomenon for people with a lot more discretion than a Lecherous character...

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You don't have to find a receptive audience for Lecherousness to go badly for you. A non-receptive audience can easily go worse. A man hitting on lots of straight men isn't very likely to get laid, but they might well get severely beaten. Pretty sure that's a well-known phenomenon for people with a lot more discretion than a Lecherous character...

Heck, a straight guy who repeatedly hits on a cute waitress who has already told him, "no," several times, might find himself escorted out of the bar or restaurant -- straight to the back alley, where the bouncers and a couple of the other waiters kick the crap out of him.

This is a 15-point disadvantage. It's not a source of mere inconvenience or temporary embarrassment. It's a severe character flaw that creates real and lasting problems.

Arrest. Injury. Financial losses. Avoidance of places and people because of past misbehavior.

A simple rejection, perhaps accompanied by a slap in the face, is not worth 15 points.

[dcarson]

Success can bring problems also. Had a case where the main part of the party found themselves in trouble because the guy who was supposed to be backup was gone because a pass at an attractive woman worked.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by dcarson

Success can bring problems also. Had a case where the main part of the party found themselves in trouble because the guy who was supposed to be backup was gone because a pass at an attractive woman worked.

It can do a lot worse than that. It can get you — and perhaps the person who unwisely accepted your blandishments — attacked and perhaps killed by jealous rivals and honour-bound brothers, fathers etc. I understand that fights over sex and flirting are the most common motive of murder, manslaughter, and legally-excusible homicide.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by martinl

While there are some disadvantages that are there to make villains or outright monsters, I don't think Letch is one of them.

It might well cover some prurient high school boy who goes around snapping bras or flipping up skirts. Reprehensible, but not necessarily as serious as stuff making the news lately such as Steubenville.

The difference might come down to additional mental disadvantages which compound the problem or how the character deals with it. IE letting himself get slapped in the face ("I deserved that!") vs seeking undeserved revenge.

Originally Posted by smurf

Bisexuality is not a disadvantage per se, unless a specific genre/world notes that.

It just seems like "I'm attracted to X" or "I'm attracted to X" should be a disadvantages (you are vulnerable to certain skills) and "I'm attracted to X and Y" should be worth more than either alone.

Unless of course it somehow works out to 0-point because there are benefits to it, statistically.

Non-statistically there are potential benefits like:
1) it might be less effort to act attracted to someone if you actually are
2) you don't need to lie about being attracted, doesn't interfere with honesty
3) some kind of positive enjoyment from being with people possessing a certain trait

Originally Posted by smurf

Moreover, the pool of rejection has been increased too.

I'm not understanding what you mean by this or how it is a disadvantage.

[smurf]

Originally Posted by Plane

It might well cover some prurient high school boy who goes around snapping bras or flipping up skirts. Reprehensible, but not necessarily as serious as stuff making the news lately such as Steubenville.

The difference might come down to additional mental disadvantages which compound the problem or how the character deals with it. IE letting himself get slapped in the face ("I deserved that!") vs seeking undeserved revenge.


It just seems like "I'm attracted to X" or "I'm attracted to X" should be a disadvantages (you are vulnerable to certain skills) and "I'm attracted to X and Y" should be worth more than either alone.

Unless of course it somehow works out to 0-point because there are benefits to it, statistically.

Non-statistically there are potential benefits like:
1) it might be less effort to act attracted to someone if you actually are
2) you don't need to lie about being attracted, doesn't interfere with honesty
3) some kind of positive enjoyment from being with people possessing a certain trait


I'm not understanding what you mean by this or how it is a disadvantage.

UK criminalised homosexuality in the 19th Century and therefore to be perceived as 'gay' would carry a social stigma, despite it being dropped in 1967.

From the Carry On films:

Charles Hawtrey - accepted his sexuality but guarded it
Kenneth Williams - struggled with his sexuality due to societal pressures
Frankie Howerd - struggled with his sexuality but held a gay relationship for 30 years.

All 3 struggled with mental health.

No doubt there are similar experiences in US culture prior and post Stonewall.

Therefore bisexuality will have to follow the stigmas (if there are any) of homosexuality.

The Pool of rejection: A bisexual person can hit on 'twice as many' logic will also will face rejections at twice the rate. This may give the Lecherousness person a reputation as a 'Lech'.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

I'm in agreement. Pretty much, unless it's illegal in the game world or the norm, it's not really much more than a quirk.

There is certainly room for legal social stigmas as well.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by smurf

UK criminalised homosexuality in the 19th Century and therefore to be perceived as 'gay' would carry a social stigma, despite it being dropped in 1967.

In cases where one's sexuality is a literal crime, you're most likely going to have either Secret or Enemy (Law Enforcement), the latter if you're "out." The Enemy would also likely be accompanied by a Social Stigma or negative Reputation. The Enemy is probably more likely Rival (although you may want to rename that in this case) than Hunter, as it may mostly be harassment by law enforcement rather than actually locking the character away for the rest of the campaign (unless in a society where, for example, homosexuality is frequently punished by a long prison sentence or outright execution, in which case Hunter is the most appropriate).

[Kfireblade]

Originally Posted by smurf

Just because a character is bisexual does not mean the rest of the world is. Straight Women don't like being hit on by other women in the same way Straight Men do not like being hit on by other men. Or married or people in a relationship do not like being hit on because they are already have a partner.

Hence, doubling the pool of not many is not a big way to increase the disadvantage. Moreover, the pool of rejection has been increased too.

I mean, that misses most of the point of why Lech would be worse for a bisexual character. A monosexual character's main drawbacks from from Lech aren't going to be simple rejection, they are going to be other consequences. Wasted time, getting slapped, getting beaten up, getting accused of harassment and having to deal with the cops and possible restraining orders. (of course, depending on their social skills and when/where they are they might be able to avoid the worst of those, at least usually) and these problems can happen literally anytime they have more then passing contact with a cute member of the gender they like. Those arguing that's not exactly the case, especially giving examples with multiple attractive people at once, are wrong, if their are two pretty people of the correct gender your dealing with at the same time, you make a pass on both of them. (or roll not to) That's absolutely clearly the case by RAW.

A bisexual characters with Lech can't interact normally with any attractive character without making making that roll, or making a pass first. Basically guaranteeing they are gonna waste more time when they go out, and greatly increasing the chances of them facing other severe repercussions.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by Kfireblade

A bisexual characters with Lech can't interact normally with any attractive character without making making that roll, or making a pass first. Basically guaranteeing they are gonna waste more time when they go out, and greatly increasing the chances of them facing other severe repercussions.

Would you give more points to a person with lechery in a metropolis than you would one who lives in a rural community? You have the same issue - Player A has a much greater pool of how often this will come up than Player B.