Newb GM Questions

[Kiipo]

Hello! I'm a new gm, new to gurps. I've been endeavoring to riddle out this system, as DND has always been too complex for me. And I think I'm starting to get a handle on it, but I have a few questions.

1. Dodge/Parry stacking seems a way to elongate a game completely. I suppose Parry has some balance associated with it, as some weapons can't be parried. But, if a character just stacks a ridiculous amount of points into dodging, and they choose to dodge every single attack does this effectively make them invincible? How is dodge stacking balanced?

Seems a bit odd, that a character can absolutely nail an attack roll, and then just have a dodger shrug it off.

2. How much time does each 'turn' of combat represent? I assume FP is one way to prevent matches from lasting forever. (like if two dodge specced characters are just jumping around each other all day)

More questions later!

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Kiipo

Hello! I'm a new gm, new to gurps. I've been endeavoring to riddle out this system, as DND has always been too complex for me. And I think I'm starting to get a handle on it, but I have a few questions.

1. Dodge/Parry stacking seems a way to elongate a game completely. I suppose Parry has some balance associated with it, as some weapons can't be parried. But, if a character just stacks a ridiculous amount of points into dodging, and they choose to dodge every single attack does this effectively make them invincible? How is dodge stacking balanced?

Seems a bit odd, that a character can absolutely nail an attack roll, and then just have a dodger shrug it off.

2. How much time does each 'turn' of combat represent? I assume FP is one way to prevent matches from lasting forever. (like if two dodge specced characters are just jumping around each other all day)

More questions later!

You can not put pts directly into either Parry or Dodge except by purchasing the Enhanced Parry and Enhanced Dodge Advantages. Even 1 level of these is normally associated only with advanced martial arts training. More than 1level is possible only with GM permission in a highly Cinematic game.

Normally Parry can only be raised by buying Weapon Skill and very high levels are going to eb expensive. If you give PCs lots of character pts expect hem to do amazing things with what they spend them on.

Dodge is even more expensive than Parry since you have to buy up DX. HT and/or Basic Speed.

Really abusable ways to achieve high defenses tend to involve Shields or Magic since these are the only things that grant the Defensive Bonus trait.

[Mathulhu]

Good morning,
Dodge is really expensive, it effectively starts at 8 +1 for combat reflexes and then costs 15 points per level. So you are looking at 60 points to get a dodge of 12 (75% chance of success) and 90 points to get a 14 (90% chance of success).
If a player is paying those kinds of points for abilities they should be good.

A big part of 4th Ed combat is using methods to lower the victims defence, for example deceptive attacks and feints.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Kiipo

1. Dodge/Parry stacking seems a way to elongate a game completely. I suppose Parry has some balance associated with it, as some weapons can't be parried. But, if a character just stacks a ridiculous amount of points into dodging, and they choose to dodge every single attack does this effectively make them invincible? How is dodge stacking balanced?

Basically, the GM stops it from happening in the first place. GURPS assumes a GM actively making choices about what is and is not allowed in any given campaign, like multiple levels of various advantages. In this case, the GM should put a limit on the extent to which one may improve defenses. Enhanced Defenses even calls this out explicitly:

Originally Posted by Basic Set: Characters, p. 51

Note that
bonuses larger than +3 are almost certainly
unbalanced, even in “over-thetop”
games!

Originally Posted by Kiipo

2. How much time does each 'turn' of combat represent?

One second.

[Kiipo]

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

Good morning,
Dodge is really expensive, it effectively starts at 8 +1 for combat reflexes and then costs 15 points per level. So you are looking at 60 points to get a dodge of 12 (75% chance of success) and 90 points to get a 14 (90% chance of success).
If a player is paying those kinds of points for abilities they should be good.

A big part of 4th Ed combat is using methods to lower the victims defence, for example deceptive attacks and feints.

I see, so dodge/parry skills default at 8 and can only be increased through reflexes and 'enhanced x' so they arent influenced by your base stats?

[Mathulhu]

Parry is calculated as half the skill plus three.
Dodge is a quarter of you dexterity and health added together then plus three, it starts at eight for a health ten and dexterity ten character.

No matter how you increase Dodge it costs at least fifteen points, whether it is Enhanced Dodge or Improved Basic Speed.
If you buy four levels of heath it will cost forty points, if you buy four levels of dexterity it costs eighty points. You do get all the awesome that four levels in those stats give you as well, but you were focusing on dodge.

[mehrkat]

No Dodge is effected by your stats but as its really expensive to up stats and how much stuff you are carrying (your encumbrance) it tends to average out to be around 8 + 1 for Combat Reflexes (which just about every warrior type will take)

Dodge is base Speed/3 and Speed is equal to (Dexterity + Health)/4 so Dodge tends to be effectively low even in characters that are focused on combat.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Kiipo

I see, so dodge/parry skills default at 8 and can only be increased through reflexes and 'enhanced x' so they arent influenced by your base stats?

No. I think the example was poorly stated. Dodge is basically your Speed + 3. Without raising stats, one's speed ends up being 5, which means Dodge would be 8. Increasing DX and HT increases Speed, which in turn cranks up Dodge, but that's hella expensive if done solely for the purpose of increasing defenses. Dodge can be increased directly with a few advantages, but those are also expensive, and the GM is expected to limit them anyway.

Parry is (weapon skill/2) + 3, so it can get very high if a character buys a high skill, but parrying multiple attacks comes at the very least at substantial penalties.

In any event, it's possible to get impressive defenses. The intended response is for attackers to use Feint and Deceptive Attack, which reduce an opponent's defenses.

[ClayDowling]

Mostly what THB Co said: don't let the situation come up. Also, it's only really relevant in the situation of a stand up fight. Which the opponents will want at all costs to avoid. There's snipers, there's sneaky buggers with catlike feet and a rock to the back of the head, there's wenches slipping a mickey into the ale.

If you're hero is invulnerable, it just means the GM isn't being clever enough. Heck, one GM gave the whole party super powers, made us think we were invincible, then set us the task of breaking the devil out of Hell. You start feeling less invincible once you start playing at that scale.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kiipo

1. Dodge/Parry stacking seems a way to elongate a game completely. I suppose Parry has some balance associated with it, as some weapons can't be parried. But, if a character just stacks a ridiculous amount of points into dodging, and they choose to dodge every single attack does this effectively make them invincible? How is dodge stacking balanced?

Seems a bit odd, that a character can absolutely nail an attack roll, and then just have a dodger shrug it off.

Others have touched on it, but by my estimation the most important balancing factor here is Deceptive Attack - for every -2 you take to your attack, you impose a -1 to all of your foe's defenses. If you've got much higher weapon skill than the dodge-monkey, you could precede this with a Feint to drop his defenses even further.
Let's say we've got a character with crazy Dodge (16) and decent combat skill (14). Put him up against a skilled swordsman (skill 18), and said swordsman can first make a Feint - on average dropping dodge-monkey's Dodge to 12 - then next round take -4 to his skill (dropping it to 14, which is still most likely a success) and drop dodge-monkey's Dodge score all the way to 10, for a 50% chance at avoiding damage. As dodge-monkey likely has very limited DR, there's a good chance of a single hit dropping him. Note that dodge-monkey has invested 120 points of awesome into getting his Dodge that high, while our swordsman has spent somewhere closer to 32 points on his sword skill.

Originally Posted by Kiipo

2. How much time does each 'turn' of combat represent? I assume FP is one way to prevent matches from lasting forever. (like if two dodge specced characters are just jumping around each other all day)

Each turn is a single second. For most combat, even with two characters who have invested heavily in defense (and not into offense), you'll probably see one get lucky and land a solid hit before they run out of FP (unless they're relying heavily on Feverish Defenses). There's an optional system, The Last Gasp, that allows tracking of more short-term fatigue that would come into play for our dueling dodge-monkeys, but you'll probably be best off sticking with the stuff from Basic Set for learning the system.