TK w/Based on Attribute

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

That would only apply for TK 60+ though. In Supers campaigns with the Super-Effort and Super-Damage modifiers, TK 10 can exceed 700 CP, and adding Reliable +10 only increases the cost by 50 CP. Honestly, Super-Damage is a bit high priced, as I could buy Super-ST 20/110 for 500 CP.

Yeah, "it requires TK 60+ to not be a point crock" is probably a semantically better way of putting my stance.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I take it one step further, and treat physical skills "TK Broadsword" (etc) as a different skill than regular "Broadsword".

I could see that being a perfect option in some settings. As for defaults, I think -5 or -6 would be fine; You've had training, but it's not fantastic when you have to use your body. The default is only really useful at high skill levels.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Having double checked what it says there I'm sure that what I said in the first place is correct. It does not replace the need for the skill, it replaces the attribute:
E.G.To wield a broadsword with Telekinesis requires a DX based Broadsword check. If you do not have a broadsword skill you can roll on default off of DX at it's usual default of DX-5.
If your TK has Based On IQ it requires an IQ based broadsword check instead, and if you do not have broadsword you can roll on default off of your IQ at the usual relative level for IQ-5.
If your TK has Based on Sex Appeal wielding a broadsword requires a Sex Appeal based Broadsword check (not normally a thing, GMs should decide if they want this to be a thing), and if you do not have broadsword you can roll on default off of your Sex Appeal at the usual relative level for Sex Appeal-5.

EDIT note: If you would like the skill to replace the attribute and any skill when using TK, that would be a totally valid use of a wildcard skill! Based On (TK!) +20%

I like the idea of still requiring the base skill or suffering defaults even with an all-encompassing skill as your example with Sex Appeal. As for a wildcard skill, I'm not even sure I'd use Based On since bang skills already can be floated to different attributes.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I like the idea of still requiring the base skill or suffering defaults even with an all-encompassing skill as your example with Sex Appeal. As for a wildcard skill, I'm not even sure I'd use Based On since bang skills already can be floated to different attributes.

Actually any skill can float to a different attribute when appropriate. Wildcard skills just have more appropriate circumstances than the average skill. =)

As for having an all encompassing skill but still dealing with defaults: that will be a big campaign flavor thing. It'll make finesse with TK cheaper CP wise then finesse outside of it, considering that skills is 4 cp per level past the first 4 cp, which is still a huge discount compared to buying up DX or IQ. You would expect most TK users to have notable finesse.

[AlexanderHowl]

Or you could just ban Reliable for TK. With Based of X and Talent, characters can still get up to 24, but that is a lot better than 34.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

As for having an all encompassing skill but still dealing with defaults: that will be a big campaign flavor thing. It'll make finesse with TK cheaper CP wise then finesse outside of it, considering that skills is 4 cp per level past the first 4 cp, which is still a huge discount compared to buying up DX or IQ. You would expect most TK users to have notable finesse.

That does make a lot of sense. I'm still iffy on one encompassing skill but I'm also not against Based on Will, which is barely a point cost difference. As pointed out by Ejidoth, it's fairly balanced if a bit odd. Honestly I should just ask a player to take it and see how absurd it gets. TK is still something of a buy in and it.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Or you could just ban Reliable for TK. With Based of X and Talent, characters can still get up to 24, but that is a lot better than 34.

Generally I keep a close eye on Reliable and look for other ways to increase skill rolls. Then again, I also allow mundane talents up to level 5 (likely change to 10 the more I read PU3) and power talents up to 10 but not combos that would push it much past 20.

On a similar note, does anyone know what Based On does with Extra Arm? I've done TK builds in the past using Extra Arm with modifiers so that TK is based on your ST instead of having its own ST and wondering if Based on IQ (or Will or whatever) works the same way as TK.

[AlexanderHowl]

I think that Based on X would replace DX, HT, or ST (choose one for each purchase of Based on X). In addition, I think that it would be best to use Stretching with Force Extension (+50%) and No Signature (+20%). For example, you could have a character with PK Talent 4 [20] and Stretching 15 (Force Extension, +50%; No Signature, +20%; PK, -10%; Reduced Time 1, +20%; Reliable, +10, +50%) [207], for a total of 227 CP, which would allow them to extend instantly out to 700 yards (Reliable plus Talent reduces their stretching time from 15 seconds to 1 second, and Reduced Time makes it instantaneous).

With the above build, you could have an individual who used their invisible limbs to punch or grab people from over a third of a mile away. Since they can instantly extend and retract, they could use it for some really awesome stunts. For example, they could 'warp' through extending their arms 700 yards, grab onto a building, and then retract their arms by 700 yards while keeping a grip, which would take a total of two turns (one to extend and grab and another to retract then act). Since they are paying over 200 CP for the ability, it is not abusive (Warp is cheaper if you just want transportation), just amusing.

[Plane]

Does anyone have some ideas on how to give range-like penaltis to TK? Like perhaps applying the 'Short Range' modifier to it? That could make sense for a lot of concepts.

Even if you house-ruled it having maxed-out (1 per yard like magic) mods built in where you had to buy 'Long Range' to ignore them that would still be a pretty good pricing deal for something costing half as much as ST (equal to Striking ST) to buy.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I think that Based on X would replace DX, HT, or ST (choose one for each purchase of Based on X). In addition, I think that it would be best to use Stretching with Force Extension (+50%) and No Signature (+20%). For example, you could have a character with PK Talent 4 [20] and Stretching 15 (Force Extension, +50%; No Signature, +20%; PK, -10%; Reduced Time 1, +20%; Reliable, +10, +50%) [207], for a total of 227 CP, which would allow them to extend instantly out to 700 yards (Reliable plus Talent reduces their stretching time from 15 seconds to 1 second, and Reduced Time makes it instantaneous).

With the above build, you could have an individual who used their invisible limbs to punch or grab people from over a third of a mile away. Since they can instantly extend and retract, they could use it for some really awesome stunts. For example, they could 'warp' through extending their arms 700 yards, grab onto a building, and then retract their arms by 700 yards while keeping a grip, which would take a total of two turns (one to extend and grab and another to retract then act). Since they are paying over 200 CP for the ability, it is not abusive (Warp is cheaper if you just want transportation), just amusing.

Gah, I keep forgetting No Signature is that awesome. Replacing DX and ST makes sense (a psion could go IQ and Will for instance) but what would HT matter for? Damage taken?

Originally Posted by Plane

Does anyone have some ideas on how to give range-like penaltis to TK? Like perhaps applying the 'Short Range' modifier to it? That could make sense for a lot of concepts.

Even if you house-ruled it having maxed-out (1 per yard like magic) mods built in where you had to buy 'Long Range' to ignore them that would still be a pretty good pricing deal for something costing half as much as ST (equal to Striking ST) to buy.

General consensus from what I've seen is reversing Reliable is the fair cost for penalties (-5% per -1), then staggering it with Accessibility or level for taste.

[AlexanderHowl]

HT would matter for the Extra Arms.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

On a similar note, does anyone know what Based On does with Extra Arm? I've done TK builds in the past using Extra Arm with modifiers so that TK is based on your ST instead of having its own ST and wondering if Based on IQ (or Will or whatever) works the same way as TK.

Considering that TK doesn't require rolls of any kind for basic manipulation, requires an attribute roll against DX for complex manipulation, and requires skill rolls for skill based manipulations; and that Arms (with or without hands) also don't require rolls of any kind for most manipulation, but do require attribute rolls against DX for complex manipulations, and require skill rolls for skill based manipulations I'd imagine Based On would do the same thing in both instances.

I have difficulty imagining a scenario where extra arms would be justifiable to be based on a different attribute then DX without also requiring other limiters. For example if they're based on IQ they should probably require concentration (the part of the mind that can handle limbs subconsciously mostly correlates with your DX score not your IQ.) But I'm sure there are exotic circumstances where that's not the case. =)