Can a Navy SEAL be made for 200 cps?

[iso8859-1]

Actually it's a campaign problem.

If the Seals in your campaign can be made with 200 pts (let's just say a "realistic" template), your player can take this template (although there won't be many points left for individual skills).

If the Seals in your campaign have a 300 or 500 or even 210 pt template, the player just can't be a Seal. He can be a Seal in training or an Ex-Seal - but he can't be a real Seal.

I think a Seal can be made with 200 points - they're human too. Especially if you don't make them genius (which most aren't - they're just quite intelligent). But again - it all depends on the point/power-level of your campaign. The power-level of your campaign depends on the number of skills your PCs actually NEED. If you're asking for a wide variety of skills, your player need more points for more skills without getting actually better in fighting.
Just make a template of what YOU think a Seal in YOUR campaign would be like - if it's above 200 points - he can't take it.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by HANS

>Yeah, given the increased costs of IQ and DX in 4e, and what levels the SEAL needs them at (I think it was 14 or 15 in SO 3e),

In GURPS 4e, such high attributes are no longer common (or required). My SEAL template runs with no attribute higher than 13.

How do you get the skill levels you need, then? I really can't think of enough legal Talents to hellp a SEAL.

Brandon

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Twyll

4E attribute costs were adjusted to avoid abuses on DX and IQ scores, as they're the one mainly used for skills. Now do you really think that real seals are genius with IQ 14 or olympic champions with DX 14 ? Obviously not. You should begin by lowering DX and IQ requirements to be a seal, IMHO.

Which inflates the number of points in skills, so we go back to the more rediculous 300-400 point characters of Special Ops 1e.

Brandon

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by copeab

How do you get the skill levels you need, then? I really can't think of enough legal Talents to hellp a SEAL.

Brandon

Skill level 12 is profetional.

Seals would probe have Skill levels of 14-15 in ther spiecalty.

Not that hard to do on an IQ 12-13

[HANS]

>How do you get the skill levels you need, then?

Well, depends on what you think their skill levels ought to be. In my SEAL template for GURPS 3e (the one that is in SPECIAL OPS 3e), primary skills are all between 13-15. In my SEAL template for GURPS 4e (for a yet to be approved project), primary skills are between 13-15. You can easily achieve that with IQ 13 and DX 13.

Cheers

HANS

[HANS]

>Especially if you don't make them genius (which most aren't - they're just quite intelligent).

I think you are using the stat definitions too rigidly. IQ 13 does not mean you are a genius. It CAN mean you are very bright. It can also mean that you are of average intelligence, but are quick to pick up information and use it.

Cheers

HANS

[HANS]

>Which inflates the number of points in skills, so we go back to the more rediculous 300-400 point characters of Special Ops 1e.

No it doesn't. The SEAL template I put together closely mirrors the one in GURPS SPECIAL OPS 3e in regards to capabilities (with a few tweaks) -- ie, the skill levels are roughly the same. It costs 250 points, which is more than the 200 a chap with similar capabilities cost in GURPS 3e. OK. However, it is not 300-400 points. Also, point costs in GURPS 4e are higher overall, which is not a bad thing per se.

Cheers

HANS

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by HANS

>Especially if you don't make them genius (which most aren't - they're just quite intelligent).

I think you are using the stat definitions too rigidly. IQ 13 does not mean you are a genius. It CAN mean you are very bright. It can also mean that you are of average intelligence, but are quick to pick up information and use it.

Proficiency in acquiring and applying information and use it is pretty much what "intelligence" is, so I think you are kind of contradicting yourself, here.

[HANS]

>Proficiency in acquiring and applying information and use it is pretty much what "intelligence" is, so I think you are kind of contradicting yourself, here

Perhaps. WHat I am trying to say it that IQ 13 is not IQ 13. It is not a scientific, easily defined parameter and doesn't necessarily mean the same to every character. It can mean mathematical genius just like it can mean you have it easier to pick up how to blow up stuff and use complicated radio equipment.

Cheers

HANS

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by HANS

Perhaps. WHat I am trying to say it that IQ 13 is not IQ 13. It is not a scientific, easily defined parameter and doesn't necessarily mean the same to every character. It can mean mathematical genius just like it can mean you have it easier to pick up how to blow up stuff and use complicated radio equipment.

"Mathematical Genius" might be, in fact is, included in IQ 13, but you can have mathematical genius without IQ 13 (hence, the Mathematical Ability talent). If what the character you are trying to model actually has isn't the full spectrum of what IQ 13 represents, then its probably a lower IQ with one or more Talents or quasi-Talent advantages (like Charisma), not actual IQ.

Now, if you are making a point-optimized PC template, then, yes, you are often going to have stats that are higher than what a real average member of a profession would have, since real people are not optimized. That doesn't mean IQ 13 somehow means something other than proficiency at the full spectrum of things that IQ covers, what it means is that average members of most professions (even professions that are themselves elite) are not "point-optimized".

One thing that has been brought up is that combat-centered characters don't benefit from Talents, at least any of the out-of-the-box ones. But there is no reason they shouldn't benefit from Talents, even with the prohibition on Combat talents. A Talent like this is probably fairly realistic, as Talents go:

Natural Soldier: Leadership, Observation, Scrounging, Soldier, Strategy, Tactics. 5 points.

EDIT: A slight variation that might be more appropriate for the kind of talented individual that makes a great NCO that is definitely a staple of military fiction would be to drop Strategy from the talent and replace it with Teaching.