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Old 10-20-2019, 06:45 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Swarm Stack Suggestion is Six

What is the proper "stacking limit" for swarm critters.

Well it would be a shame to not be able to use these counters

http://www.warehouse23.com/products/...ungeon-dangers

But I've got an alternative that works even without those counters.

Put a d6 on the board where the swarm critters are (their individual facings do not matter) and whenever the number of critters changes flip the die over to the new total.

Hence the best stacking limit for rats and such is six.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:56 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Swarm Stack Suggestion is Six

We always saw it as yet another rules "edge" which required GM discretion.

So it's simply up to the GM to decide what the stacking and/or attacking and/or damage limits are for each type of nuisance creature. Since players rarely play as rat colonies or giant wasp hives, the GM simply moves the rats etc and stacks them however the GM thinks should/would/does happen.

But the lack of guidelines is a problem especially for new and/or rule-oriented GMs.

SJ's proposed "errata" to make it 2 seems pretty awful to me, as you pointed out, it means Leather or Toughness + cloth or Toughness 2 means "ignores all rats..." and clearly 2 rats is not a realistic stacking limit for a 4-foot hex plus crawling onto victims.

However I think the core problem has always been the overly-simplistic and unrealistic mechanic of stacking rat bites versus armor. Ideally that would be replaced by something more representative of the situation.

Personally, being a detail-oriented type of GM, I'd prefer to track how many rats have actually managed to climb onto a victim, where they are, and whether they've found or bitten a way through the victim's armor or not. I might simply handle this by one-die (rat DX 10) rolls such as:

When adjDX 10 comes up, count the number or rats on the ground in a victim's hex, roll 1 die for each, and on a 1-3, that rat has climbed onto the victim.

Rats that are on a victim get a roll to find a way through armor. Roll another die for all rats on a victim. If the die roll is greater than the victim's armor, it bites for 1 point of damage.

Or something. I'd probably embellish it more in various ways depending on what level of detail I wanted. Have ways for victims to use an action to avoid getting climbed on, or to shake or brush off rats. Maybe add a distinction about whether the rats are finding ways around armor or biting through it.

Because ideally, the horror of being swarmed and killed by rats should I think be more like a large number of them might get on you and be unable at first to get through even cloth armor but slowly be making their way to places where they can hurt you, and there may be too many to deal with at once.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:42 PM   #3
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Swarm Stack Suggestion is Six

Do you roll HTH defense against each rat?
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Old 10-20-2019, 02:35 PM   #4
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Swarm Stack Suggestion is Six

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Do you roll HTH defense against each rat?
No, but something similar could be part of a good system for handling it.

Realistically, people would/do have options about rats coming towards them. Imagine if you're ready to respond, and there's a bunch of rats, what you might do:

A) You could run away (likely, would tend to work as long as the way is clear for you to stay ahead of them - they're not going to leap onto while you're running).
- I think this is just moving, and I might just add a rule such as every full 2 MA you move gives rats a -1 on their 1-die roll to jump on you, so if you move 6+, they won't jump on you that turn.

B) You could try to stomp them and/or hit them with weapons (already covered in TFT rules - works ok as is IMO). Stomping one might also deter one or more others from coming at you, I imagine.
- I think this is just the already-mentioned ability to attack rats on your turn, but doesn't prevent them from jumping on you. I might add some chance (or just roleplay the rats) that some rats near you get deterred from attacking you if you stomp their friends.

C) You could try to shoo/shove them away from getting near enough to you to get one you (would depend on their state of mind and how many there are, and how assertive/skilled you are - a high-DX person could probably kick one or two away, and some would hesitate or back off, but if there are more, the others will continue forward).
- I'm not going to try to figure the best rule for this, but maybe this option give rats a -1 on their 1-die roll to jump you, and you roll DX and if you make it, the amount you make it by is the number of rats in your hex you manage to shove or shoo out of your hex.

D) You could not run away but keep tip-toe hopping from foot to foot to deny them access to climb on you. I think that would have a pretty good chance of mostly denying them access to jump on you, and you might stomp one but it'd be a lot harder to hit them without stopping hopping, than if you were focusing on stomping on them. But it would also eventually wear you out and they could just sit near you waiting for you to stop. They might just go somewhere else though.
- I might handle this as per option A) above, but simply that you can spend MA hopping in your own hex. Roll DX and on an auto-hit you stomp a rat, crit fail you fall down.

E) If you have rats on you, you can try to brush and shake them off.
- Roll 3/DX and remove rats equal to the number you made the roll by. They fall into random adjacent hexes and can't act till next turn.
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