Tiamoop + Miraculous Moop

[Argendauss]

Spyke and Flower are both at level 7, and Flower agrees to help the main combatant Spyke in a fight against a monster big enough to grant 2 levels. After entering combat, Flower immediately uses Curse! Moop Experiments on You! on herself to swap races with the last discarded race card... which she knows is an Elf. Both now stand to gain two levels now but are losing by 7 after other munchkins buff the monster. Spyke plays Tiamoop for the monster's side to make the power deficit 13. Then he cackles and plays Miraculous Moop (which may only be played when losing by ≥10) to automatically win the fight for them. They get two levels from defeating the monster, bringing them to 9 and potentially avoiding the caveat on Miraculous Moop that it may not grant the winning level. Munchkins went from 7 -> 9.

But now Tiamoop must be resolved. To paraphrase: after the battle is won by two munchkins, whichever participating munchkin sacrifices the card worth the most gold gains a level that may be the winning level. Spyke feels certain he'll win because he has a big item worth 600 gold (Beaver Cleaver) in his hand (it's in his hand because he has already reached his limit of big items that may be on the table aka "carried"), and Flower only has items equipped with base values of 500 gold. He secretly sacrifices the Beaver Cleaver from his hand and Flower reveals that she chose her Nit Pick which is modified by the Great Big item enhancer--which Spyke forgot raises the value of an item to 1000 gold. This Great Big Nit Pick leads to a great big nitpicking fight, because somebody is getting the winning level from this. One munchkin goes from 9 -> 10.

So lots of questions:
1) May munchkins curse themselves? (yes, I think)
2) May munchkins play one-shots on the side of the monsters they are fighting?
3) Miraculous Moop may not give the winning level. In the scenario I described, would you agree that the kill levels from the fight (facillitated by Miraculous Moop in this case) don't count as the winning levels even though later on in the same turn a separate mechanic is going to build off that and grant the actual winning level?
4) Tiamoop says "each of them now secretly sacrifices a card... The one worth the most Gold Pieces earns its donor an extra level, which may be the winning level".
- 4a. That makes Spyke sacrificing a hand card legal, right?
- 4b. Can Flower sacrifice an item and count its enhancement? Probably not because this one says "this card goes with the item if it is lost, stolen, or discarded" and it would be a stretch to say either of those three conditions is met by sacrificing to Tiamoop.

[Andrew Hackard]

Moved out of the 101 forum because holy Cthulhu this is not a 101 question, this is a logic puzzle. :-)

FIRST: Flower gets one level for defeating the big monster, not two. Elves get one level per monster for helping, even if the monster grants two levels for killing it.

SECOND: Yes, munchkins may Curse themselves.

THIRD: Yes, munchkins may play one-shots to help monsters they are currently fighting.

FOURTH: Because the winning level is potentially at stake, Miraculous Moop is not a legal play.

FIFTH: Each player sacrifices a single card, not a card plus any attachments. It can be a card from the hand or from the table (although a card from the table is not "secret" as such, Tiamoop doesn't say you can't do it).

[MunchkinMan]

Bear in mind, that discarding an Item with an Enhancer on it means that the Item Enhancer will go to the discard pile, too, so even if the enhancement is not included in the value of the Item, the enhancer should get discarded when you sacrifice your Item to Tiamoop

[Argendauss]

Yeah I was flipping through my new MMM set and my wheels got to spinning.

Thanks for the time looking at that Munchkin 301 question y'all. Good catch on the elf's 1 level per monster--I forgot about that.

I see the official take on "cannot be the winning level" is a strict one. Invalid if it even sets up a win ante hoc--I guess it'd work the same if Miraculous Moop or Bard Enthrall or what-have-you got the munchkin to 9 who then used something like Kill it With Fire.

[Grej]

Hello. I have question about Tiamoop.
Card says that after the battle is WON by two munchkins, whichever participating munchkin sacrifices the card worth the most gold gains a level that may be the winning level.

Can munchkins do this after winning the combat without killing monster? (for example, with Friendship Potion)?

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Grej

Hello. I have question about Tiamoop.
Card says that after the battle is WON by two munchkins, whichever participating munchkin sacrifices the card worth the most gold gains a level that may be the winning level.

Can munchkins do this after winning the combat without killing monster? (for example, with Friendship Potion)?

No. It has to be a kill.