Converting other games: What's your style?

[davidtmoore]

I've done a Shadowrun and a World of Darkness adaptation, and I follow these rules:

1. Never import a mechanic if you can use or adapt a GURPS mechanic.
2. If you have to adapt a mechanic, make sure the result is as "GURPSy" in feel and play as possible.
3. Think about how any adapted mechanic will fit into existing rules (with Shadowrun, eg. don't try to adapt "drain" rules, because they're designed to parallel soak, and GURPS uses hit points instead of soak mechanics).
4. Don't try and map numbers across strictly (eg. GURPS's 3d bell curve doesn't produce the same results as Shadowrun's dice pools).
5. Never create new advantages unless you absolutely have to. New modifiers and perks are absolutely fair game.

Oh, and people tie themselves in absolute knots trying to make Astral Projection and Astral Perception work using Insubstantiality and a host of modifiers and other abilities, but I absolutely sidestep it all using Jumper (Spirit). I posted about it here.

[davidtmoore]

Originally Posted by Apollonian

Do you take the opportunity to tweak the rules to fit your vision of the setting, or do you try to fill gaps you see in the original system?

Yes, very much. A lot of the reason for adapting games is to benefit from the greater crunchiness and detail of GURPS!

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by davidtmoore

Think about how any adapted mechanic will fit into existing rules (with Shadowrun, eg. don't try to adapt "drain" rules, because they're designed to parallel soak, and GURPS uses hit points instead of soak mechanics.

Though, in Shadowrun's case, the "push-your-luck" idea of random casting cost seems very much a part of the feel. I'm still not sure how to best emulate that.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

MechWarrior is actually the RPG side of BattleTech. It borrowed heavily from Traveller, if I remembered correctly, as you had life paths that determined your beginning capabilities. Of course, GURPS would fit well enough, it would just result in more uniform characters (and less whining).

Not until recently. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Editions of MechWarrior didn't have a life-path system. It wasn't until recently that they included it, and, indeed, made it practically mandatory. This and other changes have made the game wa-aa-aa-ay more complex than it ever should have been. I just use my GURPS conversion instead of trying to use theirs.

For me, I try to lock onto the feel of the game and emulate that through GURPS. Sometimes, it involves converting huge swaths of existing game material into GURPS mechanics (I'm looking at you Heavy Gear). Other times, it doesn't (Star Wars, Star Trek, the above-mentioned MechWarrior).

For Heavy Gear, converting from an anime-inspired, abstract system into linear GURPS was a nightmare, hindered by the fact that the numbers they gave (in an attempt to ground it in reality) didn't work. When the numbers were converted into real-world values, weapons that would be so terribly destructive with real-world values, were no more frightening (in Heavy Gear) than weapons that would barely be expected to damage the listed amount of armor.

MechWarrior, though, was simple when I sat down and did the maths. It's just inverting the BattleTech sign (+ becomes -, and vice versa) and applying them as skill penalties. Then, just playing BattleTech with the GURPS pilots.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I'll second the idea of converting feel rather than numbers. Emulate rather than duplicate.

Late to the party, but This. Many times this.

My Star Wars, Rifts, and Marvel conversions are all based on "what does the fluff say?" rather than the oft-nigh-impossible "what do the numbers say?"

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Not until recently. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Editions of MechWarrior didn't have a life-path system. It wasn't until recently that they included it, and, indeed, made it practically mandatory. This and other changes have made the game wa-aa-aa-ay more complex than it ever should have been. I just use my GURPS conversion instead of trying to use theirs.

For me, I try to lock onto the feel of the game and emulate that through GURPS. Sometimes, it involves converting huge swaths of existing game material into GURPS mechanics (I'm looking at you Heavy Gear). Other times, it doesn't (Star Wars, Star Trek, the above-mentioned MechWarrior).

For Heavy Gear, converting from an anime-inspired, abstract system into linear GURPS was a nightmare, hindered by the fact that the numbers they gave (in an attempt to ground it in reality) didn't work. When the numbers were converted into real-world values, weapons that would be so terribly destructive with real-world values, were no more frightening (in Heavy Gear) than weapons that would barely be expected to damage the listed amount of armor.

MechWarrior, though, was simple when I sat down and did the maths. It's just inverting the BattleTech sign (+ becomes -, and vice versa) and applying them as skill penalties. Then, just playing BattleTech with the GURPS pilots.

I doubled them but then I was going with rather high point budgets.

[AlexanderHowl]

The real problem with capability conversions is that what is balanced in one system may not be balanced in another. To take Shadowrun 4e as an example again, it was possible to create a beginning character who could punch for 16P elemental damage, the equivalent damage of an antitank missile (though with inferior penetrating power). The equivalent attack in GURPS would cost around 300 CP, but it was a beginning build in Shadowrun 4e. Converting magic, especially Astral Projection and Summoning, likewise ends up with massive CP investment. In order to make GURPS beginning characters functionally similar to beginning Shadowrun characters, you have to give them 500 CP.

[thalcos]

95% of the time I've ported other RPG settings I've used vanilla GURPS and just the fluff over. I did a whole Forgotten Realms campaign for years using the standard GURPS Magic system, and it worked just fine and felt like the fiction we wanted to capture, even without Vancian magic, hard cleric/wizard separations, etc.

However, I think some settings do benefit from mechanical tweaks. There's precedence here too -- GURPS Horror, for example, includes new Fright Check and insanity rules for the sanity-blasting nature of seeing elder gods, or the slowly-going-insane feel that Call of Cthulhu brings. Those rules tweaks were simple and impacted my Lovecraftian horror games in a fun way.

Similarly, the official 3e GURPS Vampire: The Masquerade rules had good, light rules for Humanity, which is so important to that angst-ridden setting (though if I remember right, by the time they got to GURPS Mage, all the rules additions were a mess).

Short version, I'd be frugal and sparing on new rules, but wouldn't hesitate if I thought they add to the setting I'm trying to capture. I might create Turning to the Dark Side mechanics for a GURPS Star Wars game because I liked how that changed the feel of the game in the West End version. Or rules for crossing realities in GURPS Torg. Or steal (and adapt) some narrative starship rules from Star Trek Adventures.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Not until recently. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Editions of MechWarrior didn't have a life-path system. It wasn't until recently that they included it, and, indeed, made it practically mandatory. This and other changes have made the game wa-aa-aa-ay more complex than it ever should have been. I just use my GURPS conversion instead of trying to use theirs.

I recently read that the latest edition of MechWarrior (as of the time of the post I read...), they realized that the life paths just resulted in people rerolling until they got the results they wanted. So they went with a point-buy system, or something. (If i understood the post, mind you.)

[tbone]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'm not sure that I've seen any orcs in DF.

DF 3: The Next Level has Orcs. For a mere 15 points, you can join the Horde!