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Old 02-15-2019, 02:25 AM   #1
johndallman
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Default [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

Intolerance [-1 to -10] is a self-imposed mundane mental disadvantage, with no self-control roll. You are prejudiced against some, or all, people who are different from you, on a variety of possible grounds. It seems to have appeared in the 3e Basic Set.

The possible types of intolerance in the Basic set are ethnicity, nationality, religion, sex, social class, or species. Pick one as the basis for your prejudice. If you’re intolerant of a specific group that isn’t yours, the disadvantage is worth [-1] to [-5], depending on how often you meet them. If you’re intolerant of everyone outside your own group, the disadvantage is worth [-10].

People you’re Intolerant of will react to you at -1 to -5. The GM decides the penalty, which is likely to depend on circumstances and the people involved. Intolerant characters react at -3 to the people they are prejudiced against, and even on a good reaction, they will be stiff and cold. With a neutral reaction, they make their prejudice clear and on worse than that, they refuse to associate at all. People who are Intolerant of foreigners react at an extra -1 to people who speak their language at Broken; some very asocial or reclusive characters might have Intolerance (Everyone else) [-10].

The Chauvinistic quirk is related: it means you’re always aware of the differences that Intolerance can be based on, which may annoy people, even if you aren’t actually prejudiced. This seems to imply that you can be both Chauvinistic and Intolerant without double-dipping: a human might be Intolerant of Martians, while being very aware of their differences from other humans, and defining their own group within humanity narrowly, rather than widely.

Intolerance is a common disadvantage on published templates, and GURPS supplements add a variety of new targets, including: (Any large group), (Weaklings), (Urbanites), (Luddites), (Genetically modified people), (Stupid people), (Despoilers of my ecological niche), (Landlubbers), (Living beings), (Non-dragons), (Civilized people), (Commoners), (Outtimers), (Lumberjacks), (Elistists and keepers of secrets), (Over-structured thinkers), (Creatures of darkness), (Monsters), (Criminals), (Closed-minded about the supernatural), (Non-cops), (Bullies), (Authority figures), (Psis), (Unyielding Skeptics), (Robots and collaborators), (Strangers), (Government), (Civilians), (Gentlemen), (Savages), (Attractive Women), (Zombies) and (The Living).

Banestorm points out that many places on Yrth, as for Earth’s Middle Ages, regard religious Intolerance as normal and often praiseworthy. Madness Dossier can inflict Intolerance in several ways, and Powers describes Intolerance as a required disadvantage for some power sources. Social Engineering has rules for using other people’s Intolerance, and Back to School for training it away, while Space uses it in species psychology.

I don’t think I’ve ever used this on a PC. It’s immensely convenient for plots as a GM, as a motivation for enemies, but that’s kind of shallow. Have you done anything more interesting with it?
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:48 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

Most types of Intolerance tend to move characters very far to the unsympathetic end of the sympathetic protagonist scale. An exception might be if the Intolerance is directed at appropriate targets, expressed in an irascible and humorous manner or both.

I've seen Intolerance (REMF) among hard-bitten front-line troops and Intolerance (Bullies) on more--or-less sympathetic characters. I strongly suspect that Intolerance (Nazis or Racists) would not be perceived as making a character unsympathetic either, as that sort of prejudice is pretty accepted in modern society. Incidentally, Intolerance (Prejudiced People) is a very ironic trait, but doesn't seem forbidden and would probably fit for various fictional and real modern characters.

Intolerance (Goblinoids) is a pretty common fantasy trait, but while crusty dwarves might sometimes get away with comedic racism without losing audience sympathy, it is a very nasty trait in any setting where goblinoids are actual people, even if they are a violent, warlike people often at war with dwarves. One of the PCs in my long-running Forgotten Realms campaign has spent some of the last two years (real time) of intermittent play dealing with the racial tensions between his established dwarven friends and allies and some orcish characters he has more recently allied with.

Going on a quest searching for the old capital of fallen empires in the region, including at least one dwarven realm and either one or two orcish ones, while accompanied by both orcs and dwarves, traveling through human lands, has brought plenty of opportunities to explore Intolerance, Chauvinism and general ethnic, racial and cultural stereotyping. Oh, and provided near constant improvement through adventure for the PC's Diplomacy and Leadership skills. Occasional Intimidation skill use too, but while the character is very gokd at Intimidation, he is not much of a liar and thus avoids making threats he wouldn't carry out, which hampers him from relying on Intimidation against people he views as friends and allies.

Public Speaking and Sex Appeal too, but that's more for ensuring that various human villages, inns and towns allow the strangely assorted band of armed strangers entry and treat them well while there. It helps that the PC is an extremely rich landed knight with a heroic Reputation, Very Handsome and Charisma 5 (some of the levels of Appearance and Charisma result from divine favor), and known to be about to marry into a noble family and likely assume direct authority over all the estates owned by the poor orphaned Countess (equivalent).

I think more than half the PCs in that campaign are Broad-Minded. It might say something about me and/or the players that the ability to find common ground with widely different potential foes and rivals is generally prized quite highly and all the most successful PCs from fantasy campaigns going back to AD&D in the early 90s (in D&D before that, negotiation with 'monsters' was not generally viewed as an option at our table) have been those who made allegiances with as many people they could, even if the common view among most societies in the setting might be that many of their allies weren't people at all.
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Last edited by Icelander; 02-15-2019 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
The Chauvinistic quirk is related: it means you’re always aware of the differences that Intolerance can be based on, which may annoy people, even if you aren’t actually prejudiced. This seems to imply that you can be both Chauvinistic and Intolerant without double-dipping: a human might be Intolerant of Martians, while being very aware of their differences from other humans, and defining their own group within humanity narrowly, rather than widely.
I don't think that that follows. Yes, you can be Chauvinistic without being Intolerant. But can you be Intolerant without being Chauvinistic? I'm finding it hard to envision someone disdaining, say, elves as a class without having any strong awareness of elves as a class as having distinctive traits. I think it might be more accurate to say that Chauvinistic is a lesser included trait.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I don't think that that follows. Yes, you can be Chauvinistic without being Intolerant. But can you be Intolerant without being Chauvinistic? I'm finding it hard to envision someone disdaining, say, elves as a class without having any strong awareness of elves as a class as having distinctive traits. I think it might be more accurate to say that Chauvinistic is a lesser included trait.
I think johndallman meant that you could be Intolerant (Elves), (Martians) or even (Racists) without necessrily having Chauvinistic as regards your attitudes toward humans (or indeed any other races or groups than the group to which your Intolerance applies) of other colours, ethnicities, nationalities, sexes, genders, social classes or cultures.

In other words, you can have both Intolerance (One Group) and Chauvinistic in the context of every other group which differs in some significant way from you, but you can also have Intolerance (One Group) while not having any remarkably chauvinistic views about anyone not belonged to the hated group. Indeed, you could even theoretically combine Intolerance (Intolerant People) and the Broad-Minded Quirk. Yes, it's ironically inconsistent from a logical point of view, but inconsistent in precisely the way real people can be inconsistent.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:30 AM   #5
johndallman
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I don't think that that follows. Yes, you can be Chauvinistic without being Intolerant. But can you be Intolerant without being Chauvinistic? I'm finding it hard to envision someone disdaining, say, elves as a class without having any strong awareness of elves as a class as having distinctive traits. I think it might be more accurate to say that Chauvinistic is a lesser included trait.
Being Intolerant of elves does imply having Chauvinistic-like behaviour about them. However, you can be Intolerant of elves and Chauvinistic about dwarfs, troll, pictsies, and so on. The latter Chauvinistic isn't implied by the Intolerance of elves.

In my original example, being Intolerant of Martians doesn't say anything, in itself, about your attitude to humans of different ethnic groups. So you can be Intolerant (Martians) and Chauvinistic (which means you're always aware of your differences from other groups of humans) for [-6].

Last edited by johndallman; 02-15-2019 at 09:35 AM. Reason: amplify explanation
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Being Intolerant of elves does imply having Chauvinistic-like behaviour about them.
I am not sure specific intolerance imply being chauvinistic.

Lets say I am rabidly intolerant of people belonging to a specific organization.

Lets also assume that such membership is not immediately obvious.

If I learn about someone belonging to the organization, I will dislike and distrust them.
Unless I am also chauvinistic, I don't necessarily have to try to be always aware of everyone membership status, however.

You could even have a dwarf Intolerant of elves (because he spent his youth being taught about the stories of old with elves abusing and betraying the dwarves) but having no idea what an elf actually look like ... If he leave his sheltered mountain mine to go adventuring, he should not have any chauvinistic behavior.
He may even, at least until an ill-timed reveal, travel and interact with elves. (and in a bad romance or good tragedy, fall in love ...)

I see chauvinistic as a low level of *Total* Intolerance (toward anyone not of your own xxx), but unrelated to *Specific* Intolerance (toward anyone belonging to a specific xxx)
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Have you done anything more interesting with it?
As a GM I've used it, but as a Player? This falls in with Greedy as being so foreign to my mindset that I'd have trouble playing it.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
. Indeed, you could even theoretically combine Intolerance (Intolerant People) and the Broad-Minded Quirk. Yes, it's ironically inconsistent from a logical point of view, but inconsistent in precisely the way real people can be inconsistent.
I don't think so. The thing with "Intolerant of Intolerance" is that actually you will really only be intolerant of certain flavours of Intolerance while others will slide. Thus one is actually Intolerant of the religiously and racially intolerant for example but not automatically of people who have a particular dislike of say, drug dealers, politicians, drunk drivers or people who cheat on their spouses.
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

I kind of feel that, if we are being realistic, almost everyone is going to have at least a quirk-level Intolerance towards some group. Many people will probably be at -2 points of Intolerance. Some could well be -5 without you ever noticing it simply because you don't fall into that group, and it's never come up. I can't imagine anyone being truly intolerant of everyone else (-10) would be functional in society though.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

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Originally Posted by edk926 View Post
I kind of feel that, if we are being realistic, almost everyone is going to have at least a quirk-level Intolerance towards some group. Many people will probably be at -2 points of Intolerance. Some could well be -5 without you ever noticing it simply because you don't fall into that group, and it's never come up.
/raisedeyebrow.jpeg

While there are individuals I am predisposed to not like, I'm not going to act against them or even react discourteously unless they are currently taking actions I find unpleasant (doing illegal drugs, being lazy while everyone else is working, boorishly ranting about their interests, abusing children/animals, etc*) and the level of action I take corresponds proportionately with the intensity of my dislike for their actions. But, depending on the severity of the action, I can still react pleasantly with them away from that activity.

While there are particular classes of people (certain religious and political affiliations) that I work against, I judge individual members based on their own merits.


* Note, some things on this abbreviated list are clearly worse than others.

Quote:
I can't imagine anyone being truly intolerant of everyone else (-10) would be functional in society though.
/raisedeyebrow.jpeg

You've never had to deal with religious/political/ethno extremists have you?
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