[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Intolerance

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

I see chauvinistic as a low level of *Total* Intolerance (toward anyone not of your own xxx), but unrelated to *Specific* Intolerance (toward anyone belonging to a specific xxx)

That seems an accurate statement.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I don't think so. The thing with "Intolerant of Intolerance" is that actually you will really only be intolerant of certain flavours of Intolerance while others will slide. Thus one is actually Intolerant of the religiously and racially intolerant for example but not automatically of people who have a particular dislike of say, drug dealers, politicians, drunk drivers or people who cheat on their spouses.

Why, you think it's impossible to have a consistent dislike of people who hate criminals, of people who hate junkies, of people who hate politicians, of people who hate otherreligionists, of people who hate gay people, of people who hate straight people, of people who hate bi people, and of people who hate asexuals, at the same time? Because that stance seems quite logical to me (though probably requires either a certain amount of admission of one's fallibility or a level of moral myopia or of hypocrisy).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Why, you think it's impossible to have a consistent dislike of people who hate criminals, of people who hate junkies, of people who hate politicians, of people who hate otherreligionists, of people who hate gay people, of people who hate straight people, of people who hate bi people, and of people who hate asexuals, at the same time? Because that stance seems quite logical to me (though probably requires either a certain amount of admission of one's fallibility or a level of moral myopia or of hypocrisy).

I think that would be indistinguishable from intolerance of all people.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I think that would be indistinguishable from intolerance of all people.

In a sense. Sure pretty much everybody is Intolerant of something - as they *should* be, there are things that are sufficiently evil that tolerating them is a severe moral failing.

But that's not to say someone couldn't take Intolerance ("Intolerant" People), they'd just have their own definition of "Intolerant" that wouldn't match either the dictionary definition or the GURPS technical usage. We all know what the intent is here right - some flavor of hyper-political-correctness.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I think that would be indistinguishable from intolerance of all people.

Potentially, though not immediately, since it's based on observed behaviour and not on instant visuals.

Originally Posted by malloyd

In a sense. Sure pretty much everybody is Intolerant of something - as they *should* be, there are things that are sufficiently evil that tolerating them is a severe moral failing.

But that's not to say someone couldn't take Intolerance ("Intolerant" People), they'd just have their own definition of "Intolerant" that wouldn't match either the dictionary definition or the GURPS technical usage. We all know what the intent is here right - some flavor of hyper-political-correctness.

'We all'? It's certainly not what I envisioned when I talked about it, because 'hyper-political-correctness' seems to in practice just shift who the Acceptable Targets, and not just towards those with the disadvantage, but also often to just to those who were less common as targets in the past.

But the way I envisioned the trait, it was about reacting prejudiced against those who support the existence of Acceptable Targets. Of course, by turning them into Acceptable Targets, one starts a contradiction. As far as I see, there are three ways of resolving the contradiction:

1. The Sin-Eater: 'I recognise my own intolerance is evil too, but I fall willingly in pursuit of my goals.' This is the sort of character who accepts when others are intolerant towards it because it realises that it is also an Acceptable Target based on its own criteria.
2. The Hypocrite: 'I am not intolerant/not evil!' This is a character who says one thing and does/feels another.
3. The non-GURPS-Intolerance-character: 'Hate the sin and not the sinner.' The character who will fight against the establishment of Acceptable Target lists, but holds no grudge against those who establish such lists. While this is likely some Disadvantage (it certainly causes problems due to such people often becoming the victim of a political crossfire of two or more intolerant sides), but it's not the GURPS Intolerance.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

But the way I envisioned the trait, it was about reacting prejudiced against those who support the existence of Acceptable Targets. ]

The problem being that Intolerance doesn't necessarily mean that you support the existence of "Acceptable Targets". It just means that there's something that causes you to react to some people with more than the usual hostility because it's something you particularly dislike.

[Kalzazz]

I don't think you need to be able to tell the difference between say orks to be intolerant of orks.

You can have zero idea if an ork is a peon or a chief, or what tribe an ork belongs to, and still being intolerant of an ork just knowing they are an ork

In fact, you can be Intolerant of orks and know nothing about them, leaving you free to invent all the important facts about orks

1. Orks are not nature
2. Orks are very promiscuous and breed with everything, like dire praying mantises
3. Anything that attacks you, especially if it is any way green or bleeds green etc it is probably ork kin
4. Orks are masters of disinformation and propaganda, nothinng orks write can be trusted
4b. If anything that is not ork kin attacks you, it might be because orks tricked it into doing so
5. There will always be more orks, killing orks is a sustainable eco friendly practice
6. Orks murder baby trees to make salads
7. Half orks are not actually orks, thus they are groovy

The difficulty is how do you be properly intolerant of orks when you haven't seen an ork for weeks in game?

Btw if anyone has any other Very important ork 'facts' I would love them. I love playing up the Intolerance (orks) angle in a game I'm playing in so more such wouod be appreciated

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Btw if anyone has any other Very important ork 'facts' I would love them. I love playing up the Intolerance (orks) angle in a game I'm playing in so more such wouod be appreciated

Your ork has no regard for intelligent life, not even his own.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Btw if anyone has any other Very important ork 'facts' I would love them. I love playing up the Intolerance (orks) angle in a game I'm playing in so more such wouod be appreciated

I've always liked everybody knows (vile opponent race) is so cursed that if too many of them are around the gods will inflict a natural disaster to wipe them out, along with everybody else in the area. Your Sense of Duty to anybody else in the vicinity [requires] you to slaughter them for everybody's safety.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The problem being that Intolerance doesn't necessarily mean that you support the existence of "Acceptable Targets". It just means that there's something that causes you to react to some people with more than the usual hostility because it's something you particularly dislike.

Well, someone with Intolerance usually either (a) believes one is not intolerant or (b) believes to be intolerant but believes this is the way things should be. Option (c) of being intolerant but deeming it wrong seems atypical.