02-19-2019, 10:50 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Untalented attempts
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02-19-2019, 12:29 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Untalented attempts
Good thing this isn't GURPS, then! ;-)
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02-19-2019, 08:58 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portland, Maine
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Re: Untalented attempts
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If you do only one die, then a 3dice to pick lock becomes a 4 dice to pick lock for amateurs and a 4 dice to pick lock becomes a 5 dice to pick lock. In this case, as the complexity goes up, its only slightly more difficult for the novice to pick it. The rules on page 40 do say "(or more dice)", but leaves it up to the GM. I would go with Double.
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02-27-2019, 07:54 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portland, Maine
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Re: Untalented attempts
Has anyone come up with a list of which Talents might restrict Unskilled usage?
Paraphrase of ITL page 8 describes Unskilled Rolls: You can attempt to do anything unless the Talent specifically says "you can't if you don't have that Talent". And some Talents state that you can attempt it unskilled but at a specific penalty. Otherwise its In general, if a physical action is automatic for one with the talent, it might be attempted, on an appropriate die roll, without the talent. If use of a talent requires a die roll, then unskilled use should either be prohibited entirely or should require extra dice, and failure should have serious consequences. which usually means roll 4d6 instead of 3d6. Unskilled Prohibited Talents like Toughness Talents specifically mentioning unskilled usage Like Boating, Horsemanship What other places in ITL Legacy mention Talent restrictions? Which Talents do you think prohibit Unskilled usage?
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02-27-2019, 11:29 AM | #15 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Untalented attempts
I think some of the talents already give overly mechanical (and inaccurate) rolls for things that I think a strong GM would and should overrule with discretion and the actual game situation in many cases.
For example, with Brawling, certainly a broken bottle is not as good as a dagger, club-like objects may be obvious to all, or not available, or have penalties compared to an actual club, and some brawlers are easier to de-fuse than others. Many talents list their abilities as special bonuses, and usually that means no talent no bonus, but usually it seems pretty easy to deduce what not having that bonus means. Here's what I think about default use of all of the specific talents. Brawling - as above, and default brawling is just the usual bare hand damage, usually halved in non-lethal brawls per Taking Prisoners rule. Carousing - you can carouse... but you get none of the Talent abilities. Weapon talents - roll 4d, or at -4 DX. Area Knowledge - anyone can know and learn stuff, this is a way to officially indicate high familiarity, and abstract. GM discretion. Boating - as listed or GM discretion. Guns - can shoot a loaded and readied gun at 4d or -4 DX. Might need 3/IQ to deduce how, or to be told beforehand. Setting up an arquebus is more complicated. Loading probably even more so, and dangerous. Horsemanship - as listed. Literacy - no, as listed. Mundane Talents - GM discretion. Quick-Draw: no Running: you can run, at normal MA, so no. Seamanship: as listed Sex Appeal - default use is ordinary reaction role & roleplaying Swimming - as listed Thrown Weapons - no/yes - you can throw just without the bonuses Blowgun - 4d or -4 DX and reduced range. Trident - 4d or -4 DX. Bola, Lasso, Net, Whip, Spear Thrower, Nunchucks, Sha Ken - no and/or GM invents ad hoc mishap chances Boomerang: 4d or -4 DX and does much reduced damage Cestus: ok but just does +1 punch damage Acute Hearing - normal hearing rolls and darkness effects Alertness - normal detection chances - I usually give SOME chance for non-alert people to detect ambushes - and alert people are guaranteed a 3/IQ roll, but what they notice depends on the situation and how well they roll Animal Handler - yes - extra dice GM discretion based on the animal Bard - default use is ordinary reaction role & roleplaying Charisma - default use is ordinary reaction role & roleplaying Climbing - as listed / GM discretion Detect Traps - as listed Diving - no / as listed Driver - as listed (GM may need to invent driving rules) Missile Weapons - no, default is normal missile weapon rules Pickpocket - yes, 6d, 4d with distraction (and I'd likely give the victim a roll to notice) Priest - GM discretion / roleplaying Recognize value - as listed Silent Movement - you can try - GM discretion with this talent as the best you can do - would be good to have default rules for sneaking Streetwise - as listed & GM discretion & roleplaying Toughness - no Acrobatics - as listed Armorer - no, GM may give clues or allow fine detection at discretion Business Sense - default is normal reactions & buy/selling. For swindling, note the limits even for one with this talent, and make it harder with GM discretion and/or roleplaying. Diplomacy - default is normal reaction rolls/modifiers, GM discretion and roleplaying Mimic - no, GM could allow attempts in some circumstances & use discretion and roelplaying Naturalist - GM may assess normal spot roles - the talent describes a special ability of the Naturalist to spot creature ambushes. Poet - no, it describes a level of talent. GM can still roll to see how good/bad each attempt is Remove Trap - as listed Weapon & Shield Expertise & Master, Unarmed Combat, 2 Weapons, Fencing - no - use combat system without those benefits Tracking - GM discretion (probably 6d if even possible except in easy situations) Architect/Builder - default is normal rolls, as listed Courtly Graces - default use is ordinary reaction role & roleplaying Detect Lies - GM discretion, should be notably harder than with this talent Expert Horsemanship - no Goldsmith - no Locksmith - GM discretion as listed Master Pickpocket - no Mechanician - mainly no - GM discretion and as listed Physicker, Vet - no Shipbuilder - describes a level of skill at an undefined building task - GM discretion Tactics / Strategist - no - default is normal initiative and guessing Woodsman - no, as listed Writing - no, describes a level of ability Assess Value - no or GM discretion Captain - no, describes bonuses. You can still try without bonuses and maybe GM ruled consequences Expert Naturalist - no or GM assessed rolls about guessing creature abilities Master Armorer - no Master Locksmith - no Stealth - GM discretion as to how much worse or whether there's even a chance given the circumstances - again would be good to have actual sneaking rules, but always needs GM discretion due to all the factors that can come in Ventriloquist - probably no or GM discretion if someone's been "taught" and tries something simple that seems like it might work Chemist & Alchemist - explicitly say no Master Mechanician - no Mathematician - no Scholar - no, GM discretion per case Disguise - no - others can do simple disguises, but that's a much simpler thing. GM discretion, where the listed rolls are for a good disguise artist Master Bard - no Master Physicker - no Theologian - no or GM discretion |
02-28-2019, 05:02 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portland, Maine
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Re: Untalented attempts
Thanks Skarg. I'm just getting a sense of how this works after all these years.
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