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Old 09-30-2014, 01:37 PM   #11
shadowjack
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I wonder whether this is actually a property of the art, or of the observer. That is, are the pictures really at least Attractive or Unattractive, or are you just seeing your own Reaction result as objectively supported? Plus or minus 1 is not enough to reliably swing random Reactions either way, after all. (The test would be to take a bunch of pictures and a bunch of viewers and see whether the consensus agreed with your calls.)
I always worry about this when statting up characters from fiction. Especially with live-action media, where we have for example the classic trope of the beautiful/handsome actor playing a character who's supposedly unappealing (until they take their glasses off and let down their hair). And ya just know if you pick one level for a favorite character out of a group, people will argue in comparison to their other favorites.

The best rule-of-thumb I've come up with is to pay close attention to the text descriptions of the appearance levels, and judge based on other characters' reactions. I'm pretty comfortable with assigning Attractive out of the blue for pretty much any media character who's at all presented as cute or studly or otherwise attractive to others; heck, it's only +1, why not? While I reserve the higher levels to characters who actually get called out in dialogue or action for being exceptional lookers, e.g. if the character doesn't have the "horde of admirers, stalkers, paparazzi, and jealous competitors" effect in the story, then they aren't Very Handsome/Beautiful, no matter how much I personally think they are. Soft-focus and swashy music may also be a sign.

Another way I look at it is to think of the Appearance level as akin to a "frequency of appearance" rating, which is a bit meta but can work. An Average character may be good-looking to the audience, but it never has any effect on the plot, so we don't stat it. While every time a Very Beautiful/Handsome character is on screen/stage/page, we're aware of that portrayal.

It's easier to judge negative appearance, since the text examples specifically call out physical deformities for Ugly or worse. Again, I'm willing to throw around Unattractive without much guilt; it's only -1, and helps make a character memorable.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

I allow players to buy custom reaction mods by the numbers.

Appearance is [2] per +1 for each gender or [5] per +1 for all who look upon you.

It's pretty simple to set up how you like.
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

I like combining Attractive appearance and Pitiable on characters based on small, stereotypically cute critters like mice, housecats, rabbits, raccoons, and so forth. I haven't actually played such a character yet, but I have built a few.
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Some players really have no interest. On the other hand I feel like I "need" to take Attractive [4] if at all possible unless my character is intentionally "plain" or of course a higher or lower Appearance. It is very hard to design a character to be "plain" in my experience. Illustrations (in my experience) always look above or below Average Appearance just because most lack the detail necessary to precisely hit "average".
I tend towards taking +1 [4], occasionally more. +2/+4 [12] is good too, but I'm less inclined to take it.
I definitely wouldn't take +2/+6 [16], because it has a built-in negative reaction and Enemy (Watcher or worse), with no point compensation.

And indeed, it seems that whenever I pick a photo to represent an [N]PC, someone will comment on a positive appearance, so I think taking a +1 most of the time is reasonable.

Whether you want the non-Androgynous second level of Appearance depends on who you'll be facing and what is your main skill. I'm currently in a campaign where named female NPCs happen to be significantly rarer than male ones, so I'm glad I didn't take non-Impressive/non-Androgynous Handsome appearance.

----

Something of a rarely-mentioned features of +1 appearance is that it triggers Lecherousness, and you can take note of that and later use it to manipulate the character.
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

Does it have a built in enemy, or does the modifier turn negative when you gather -4 total negatives?
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I would speculate that the reason the +2 level doesn't exist is that it would either be a too-tempting +2 to all (without specifying androgeny) or a perhaps unimpressive +1/+3. Or maybe I'm just projecting my bias in favor of reliability.
Honestly, I think I would be more interested in the potential of a hypothetical "Very Ugly" (or however you wish to name it) with a -3 reaction penalty for [-12]. Someone not Hideous, obviously, but a bit beyond regular Ugly. Granted, I'd prefer a bit more granularity to Appearance anyway, but I haven't got the time to get into that yet. ;)

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Some players really have no interest. On the other hand I feel like I "need" to take Attractive [4] if at all possible unless my character is intentionally "plain" or of course a higher or lower Appearance. It is very hard to design a character to be "plain" in my experience. Illustrations (in my experience) always look above or below Average Appearance just because most lack the detail necessary to precisely hit "average".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I wonder whether this is actually a property of the art, or of the observer. That is, are the pictures really at least Attractive or Unattractive, or are you just seeing your own Reaction result as objectively supported? Plus or minus 1 is not enough to reliably swing random Reactions either way, after all. (The test would be to take a bunch of pictures and a bunch of viewers and see whether the consensus agreed with your calls.)
Well... in this case I was specifically talking about myself so there isn't much of a difference. ;) Perhaps I should have phrased it as "my opinion" instead of "my experience". Though it is entirely possible this is all about my own particular Appearance Preference Quirk(s) or what have you, before conducting elaborate tests, once can also just consider how the different mediums actually affect images.

Someone with blotchy skin, actual blemishes, or details simply too fine to show up in a particular art style or at that resolution in most "shots" (TV, movie, etc.) can easily account for an effective +1 over actual appearance... which could also mean an Ugly Character is merely Unattractive. Unless you know that a character is supposed to - for example - have an asymmetrical figure, an illustration of such a character can easily be mistaken for a poor quality drawing.

There is the general Hollywood bias towards making characters better looking (unless said character is supposed to have a very low Appearance level), both because "sex sells" and because when you've got good resolution and you're showing an image that is several times life size, it can make a even a minor blemish quite noticeable and even unpleasant to view. This bias is present in television, movies, magazines, video games... any visual medium.

On top of this is, of course, style preference for the art in addition to appearance preference. Again, before we try any fancy tests, thinking through it seems to at least provide material for a decent working hypothesis. Between artistic style (which I also should have mentioned earlier) and medium choice, even if everyone can tell "That's supposed to be so-and-so..." they can also tell "...but you can't really tell he's got blotchy skin in that, and the way you draw makes him look a bit thinner than he really is." Heh, this reminds me of my difficulty in designing my Mii on the Nintendo Wii. =P
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Old 09-30-2014, 04:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

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Originally Posted by Not View Post
Does it have a built in enemy, or does the modifier turn negative when you gather -4 total negatives?
For the record, these are the things I wanted to focus on anyway, not my own personal hangup about avoiding an average appearance unless I had a good, detailed-but-average appearance so I didn't pull a Gambit (the pretty-boy of the X-Men wasn't actually supposed to be pretty, iirc). XD

I think this is to reflect "obvious consequences". If you have any significantly enticing trait, reality says you'll get attention for it if it becomes well known. This is how high ST characters might get challenged to fights (in appropriate settings) as well as living the "exciting life" (so sometimes in inappropriate settings as well). It does seem worded a bit strongly for just that.

Then again I don't know if I like the "Reputation" based build. Even though sexual attraction is a relatively standardized thing, it just strikes me as something that is in the eye of the beholder. That is to say, telling me I am paying for a +2/+4 seems silly. I wonder if I (or rather my character with Handsome) should just be paying for a flat bonus, and the fact that those attracted to my sex will be making rolls in general that those not attracted to it will not is about them... just as someone that isn't sexually attracted to me but has some other reason to enjoy my looks (the +2 cap I don't get at all) seems odd.

Of course, I wish for more granularity anyway... and there is the matter of Health and Appearance. I still wonder if it should start out as some sort of derived quantity and then you pay for the Advantages to modify it.
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

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Originally Posted by shadowjack View Post
Especially with live-action media, where we have for example the classic trope of the beautiful/handsome actor playing a character who's supposedly unappealing (until they take their glasses off and let down their hair).
The 'Hollywood Homely' quirk from this is tailor-made for that.
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

One thing I would like to see is a hybrid of the higher appearance levels

For instance, so Aphrodite could have +8 to those who like goddesses, and +5 to things who don't really care for them

Since a Universal Transcendant person is going to lose a beauty contest to Very Beautiful person who is of the Judges favored type
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage Of the Week: Appearance Levels

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
One thing I would like to see is a hybrid of the higher appearance levels

For instance, so Aphrodite could have +8 to those who like goddesses, and +5 to things who don't really care for them

Since a Universal Transcendant person is going to lose a beauty contest to Very Beautiful person who is of the Judges favored type
That seems more the territory of traits/quirks that the judge should take, rather than anything that should be reflected in traits/appearence levels taken by the contestants. Aphrodite gets her +8 for Universal Transcendant, but it gets partially cancelled out by the judge's Intolerance (Divinity).
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