[HT] Small Calibre firepower

[jacobmuller]

I once asked about the stats for 22WMR as it was recommend as a home-defence pistol calibre and was greatly surprised. (and I've lost the link to the answer too:()

I've just seen a demo of a $300 pistol in that calibre and the presenter was wishing for a "seventeen mach two" - as if 30x4d pi- weren't enough!
Anyone got stats for 17HM2 and 17HMR for pistols? I'm hopeless at using the spreadsheet for the solution - I always produce gibberish:D

Thank you all for your help!

Part of my problem with finding the answer is an in ability to remember names (the gun recommender* is really famous but deceased; the "spreadsheet" is by one of our Forum Guru's).

*edit: Jeff Cooper!

[Purple Haze]

Hard to imagine Jeff Cooper wishing for anything other than a Colt M1911 (or a "Scout" rifle).

[Dragyn]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I've just seen a demo of a $300 pistol in that calibre and the presenter was wishing for a "seventeen mach two" - as if 30x4d pi- weren't enough!
Anyone got stats for 17HM2 and 17HMR for pistols? I'm hopeless at using the spreadsheet for the solution - I always produce gibberish:D

30x4d pi-?

Huh?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I once asked about the stats for 22WMR as it was recommend as a home-defence pistol calibre and was greatly surprised. (and I've lost the link to the answer too:()

I've just seen a demo of a $300 pistol in that calibre and the presenter was wishing for a "seventeen mach two" - as if 30x4d pi- weren't enough!
Anyone got stats for 17HM2 and 17HMR for pistols? I'm hopeless at using the spreadsheet for the solution - I always produce gibberish:D

The .22 WMR is not listed on the ammo page of HT so is presumably not listed even in the text of some other gun as an alternate chambering.

4DP- sounds a little hot for a .22 WMR though it would have wounding like a non-expanding .38 if those numbers were right. A pistol that you need to shoot someone 30 times with does not sound like a good idea at all.

.17 inches would always be P- and Mach 2 isn't that fast by rifle standards (i.e. c. 2300 feet per second). In the long ago I once read of sem wildcat round that allegedly hit 5000 fps.

I can't believe Jeff Cooper either.

[Sam Cade]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I've just seen a demo of a $300 pistol in that calibre and the presenter was wishing for a "seventeen mach two"

PMR-30 prolly?

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/

[Sam Cade]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

4DP- sounds a little hot for a .22 WMR though it would have wounding like a non-expanding .38 if those numbers were right.

I don't have the spreadsheet handy but the Hornady Critical Defense (functionally a hollowpoint) is 45gr at 1700 from a rifle.

1300ish from a 4" pistol.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

I don't have the spreadsheet handy but the Hornady Critical Defense (functionally a hollowpoint) is 45gr at 1700 from a rifle.

1300ish from a 4" pistol.

The hollowpoint feature should up you to P but neither of those velocities should really be high enough to do the trick.

As tot he base damage, HT gives .22LR only 1D+2P- from a rifle barrel. That's maybe 1200 fps and an additional 200 fps isn't going to get you up to 4D. Maybe 2D-1.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

For judging things like this, it's also a good idea to compare to existing calibers. The .22 WMR looks to fire a round that is fairly similar to PDW rounds such as the FN 5.7x28mm or HK 4.6x30mm (Looks to generally be slightly heavier and lower-power than either). Its performance will probably be somewhere in the vicinity of those rounds.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

Hard to imagine Jeff Cooper wishing for anything other than a Colt M1911 (or a "Scout" rifle).

I know, JC saying that anything else was useful:0 But that was why I asked for GURPS stats in Forum and (I can't find the darn thing) it came out like a pocket M16.

Originally Posted by Dragyn

30x4d pi-?

Huh?

30 round magazine and badly remembered damage but ballpark 5.56mm from a pistol.

Originally Posted by Sam Cade

PMR-30 prolly?

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/

Yes! All I caught was KelTec. Ugly looking, bolted together plastic. Reviewer hated the 22WMR (had encountered misfire problems), thought the pistol was horribly made but admitted it did the job (a thousand rounds and going fine). Just couldn't see what the job was so mused it would be cute if also available in "seventeen mach two", and just as useful:)

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

For judging things like this, it's also a good idea to compare to existing calibers. The .22 WMR looks to fire a round that is fairly similar to PDW rounds such as the FN 5.7x28mm or HK 4.6x30mm (Looks to generally be slightly heavier and lower-power than either). Its performance will probably be somewhere in the vicinity of those rounds.

Ah, cool, something to ballpark it. The 17 would be 4.#mm.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

A pistol that you need to shoot someone 30 times with does not sound like a good idea at all.

I can't believe Jeff Cooper either.

You only ever need one shot but it's a good idea to have the extra options:D
And the 30 round magazine in a small calibre pistol must have been JCs idea of convenience - might be a long way from perfect but a lot better than nothing.