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Old 07-02-2011, 08:11 PM   #41
Jason
 
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
Names: You can call me Rob. I call me Rob. However, my name is Robert. Would a Seraph make the distinction?
Actually, if YOU call yourself Rob -- particularly if you bristle when people call you "Robert" -- I wonder if a Seraph of Destiny might even pick that up as your True Name.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:53 PM   #42
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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A couple of thoughts...

Profanity: In Quebecois French (not Parisian or Provencial French), many of the swear words are based on elements of the Catholic Mass. Would a Seraph use them?

Names: You can call me Rob. I call me Rob. However, my name is Robert. Would a Seraph make the distinction?
If Catholicism is true then he would want to pay proper respect and if not he would not want to frivolously encourage popish heresy.

The only time I can see it is when it is linguistically necessary. If an angel needs to navigate TV Tropes, say because he is the Guardian Angel of Geeks, then he might reluctantly use profanity because that is the only way to communicate.

However other then that, my objection remains. It is hard to believe a being with perfectly-ordered emotions needing expletives. It is hard to believe a non-biological being having more then a professional, an academic or an aesthetic interest in biology. And it is hard to believe a non-demonic angel blaspheming. As all profanity seems to be either an expression of biological awkwardness or a metaphorical blasphemy and is mainly used for expletives or deliberate vulgarity, it is hard to imagine an angel using it.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:56 PM   #43
Rocket Man
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
(I)t is hard to imagine an angel using it.
Yes and no. Remember, over time, your habits tend to reflect the people you spend most of your time among. If those people happen to be a street gang or a Navy crew, you're among a lot of people for whom profanity is a reflex, if not a second language.

Granted, angels have a higher Will and less need to indulge (other than possibly to keep up a Role). Still, there's a reason Mom warned us to be careful about the company we keep.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:59 PM   #44
Rocket Man
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Actually, if YOU call yourself Rob -- particularly if you bristle when people call you "Robert" -- I wonder if a Seraph of Destiny might even pick that up as your True Name.
Which brings up a sidepoint unrelated to the OP. Say Robert Edwin Samuels, a Catholic, goes by "Rob" but was christened by his Church as Robert Andrew Samuels? Which would count as his True Name for the purposes of a Seraph of Destiny? Or would an SoD get all of them, since they're all equally "real" names?
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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a being with perfectly-ordered emotions
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:01 PM   #46
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Yes and no. Remember, over time, your habits tend to reflect the people you spend most of your time among. If those people happen to be a street gang or a Navy crew, you're among a lot of people for whom profanity is a reflex, if not a second language.

Granted, angels have a higher Will and less need to indulge (other than possibly to keep up a Role). Still, there's a reason Mom warned us to be careful about the company we keep.
Which was allowed for in the phrase "linguistically necessary".

And would an angel have "habits" in the way we think of?
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:06 PM   #47
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
Oh, yeah, I can just picture an angel hitting his thumb with a hammer and saying, "O blankety-blankety blank."

You are talking about an ANGEL. Not dwarves, not orcs, not hobbits, not even elves.

Now admittedly I could picture Gandalf swearing, and Gandalf was a Maia. Which I suppose shows that even the most stringent Catholics can't do it quite right.

However I can't quite picture Manwe swearing.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:17 PM   #48
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
To be more constructive: I do think there are very interesting things to explore with respect to angels and demons not relating to their bodies in the way that humans do, whether intrinsically or culturally (I could see arguments for their body disgust being either less or more than ours, so the more interesting option of some being thus and others being so seems plausible.) Are vessels programmed with disgust reflexes towards excrement, for example? (If not, well, add that to your "tells.")

Even Seraphim who abstain from metaphorical language probably appreciate humans' employment of "bull****" - the term, not the thing it describes - as far as non-literal language goes, because it draws an analogy between something humans have a disgust reflex towards and something Seraphim do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by In Nomine, p. 93
"I think you're hiding something from us," said the first figure, finally getting through to the couch potato.

"Huh?" said the man. "I don't know nothing!"

"Liar!" the second figure screeched, twitching as though he'd been spit upon. "You disgrace yourself by bringing falsehood to a perfect Symphony."
(Note also that the Seraph isn't thrown even slightly by the fact that, under the literal meaning of the couch potato's words in proper English, what he said was presumably true.)

Last edited by Archangel Beth; 07-03-2011 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Fixing the Profanity Filter by Hand.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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Originally Posted by Matthias Wasser View Post
To be more constructive: I do think there are very interesting things to explore with respect to angels and demons not relating to their bodies in the way that humans do, whether intrinsically or culturally (I could see arguments for their body disgust being either less or more than ours, so the more interesting option of some being thus and others being so seems plausible.) Are vessels programmed with disgust reflexes towards excrement, for example? (If not, well, add that to your "tells.")
It's speculative, and makes Christian assumptions. But I believe a lot of our disgust impulses comes from the fact that we instinctively recognize a sort of disorder in our animal nature that was not originally there. That is, prefallen Adam and Eve would have had no need for shame about sex, and would have had perfect digestive systems making waste unnecessary.

But even setting this assumption aside, another species' biology does not effect us the same way as does our own. When we watch an eagle's mating dance on a nature show we say,"that looks magnificent." But only an eagle(excluding very unusual people) says, "Man, she's hot".
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #50
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Default Re: Seraphim and Profanity

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But I believe a lot of our disgust impulses comes from the fact that we instinctively recognize a sort of disorder in our animal nature that was not originally there.
A more corporeal explanation is that disgust is an evolved aversion to dangerous situations. We're generally disgusted by unhygienic circumstances, items it would be bad to eat, deeply antisocial behavior, etc. We can be trained to suppress these reflexes (a doctor can deal with contagious patients, a plumber can deal with dirty pipes) or enhance them (a racist can be disgusted by an interracial couple, a vegan can be disgusted by a fur coat).

A while back I had the thought that one of those demons who got stuck with a horrible little Word like "Things that go Squish Underfoot" or "Unexpected Wet Snot on Things" would try to go for the brass ring and claim a Word-promotion to becoming the Demon of Disgust.
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