New Reality Seeds

[dcarson]

The German Type XXI during WW II could cover 385 nautical miles at 17 knots and was much better then any of the others.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by dcarson

The German Type XXI during WW II could cover 385 nautical miles at 17 knots and was much better then any of the others.

The tropics are about 3,200 miles North to South.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by johndallman

To build a submarine that can travel long distances without surfacing or snorkelling, you need nuclear power, and some serious environmental control technology. Both are really TL7.

Perhaps some limited surfacing - could create eerie moments when the submarine has to semi-surface in the unknown tropics.

The timeline would have environmental control technology more advanced than 1950 Homeline, because controlling the environment is such a big issue on this world (for instance, air conditioning was invented earlier).

[adm]

With TL6 submarines, you could submerge during the day to avoid the heat, and then surface and cruise at night.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by adm

With TL6 submarines, you could submerge during the day to avoid the heat, and then surface and cruise at night.

That would make it extra-creepy, surfacing at night in unknown lands.

[adm]

During the day, you would largely sit and wait, preserving the limited batteries for emergencies. That's what WW II subs did in crowded enemy waters, and diesel electrics have continued to do since the war. Only nuclear boats, and the newer AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) boats have any real range options, and AIP is maintenance intensive, i.e. you are staying close to places to be fixed at. The German Type XXI's 385 nautical miles at 17 knots is only achievable with fresh batteries, that range dropped of fairly quickly as the batteries were cycled, and the massive number of batteries limited the boats payload. Explorer boats, sure, cargo boats, not so much, certainly not bulk cargoes.

[Prince Charon]

Since the subs are not trying to hide, just avoid the heat, they could have a really robust set of snorkels (the front being the snorkel proper, taking in air, the rear being the smokestack), and just cruise on slower during the day.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by adm

During the day, you would largely sit and wait, preserving the limited batteries for emergencies. That's what WW II subs did in crowded enemy waters, and diesel electrics have continued to do since the war. Only nuclear boats, and the newer AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) boats have any real range options, and AIP is maintenance intensive, i.e. you are staying close to places to be fixed at. The German Type XXI's 385 nautical miles at 17 knots is only achievable with fresh batteries, that range dropped of fairly quickly as the batteries were cycled, and the massive number of batteries limited the boats payload. Explorer boats, sure, cargo boats, not so much, certainly not bulk cargoes.

Not knowing the term AIP, I wandered Wikipedia. I had no idea that anything other than battery or nuclear had ever accomplished that task even slightly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narc%C3%ADs_Monturiol

If his ideas had been more fully explored and funded...
Probably not fitting this timeline, but could be interesting for a grounded Steampunk parallel.

[Astromancer]

Try this idea... Having recently read a work on Flodden I noticed that it was only wild luck that gave England the victory. If the Scots pike men hadn't hit that patch of mud and been forced to switch from pikes to swords, all the accounts suggest that it would have been the English who where crushed.

If you move the mud elsewhere James of Scotland would have won a profound victory over England. Henry VII, who refused to recognize Scotland as an independent and equal power, would have dropped his French campaign and been back in England at record speed.

This could go several ways. One might be simply have Henry intercepted at sea. James would have loved to have Henry for a captive. You could bring several European powers into the seas around the British isles in the resulting war.

Another stunt might be to bring Henry's father-in-Law, with Spanish armies in tow, into England in order to make sure his daughter's throne was secure. This could lead to a very messy French invasion with lots of swasher action available for the PCs.

Simply letting Henry land and lead armies north so that henry and James could duel to the death would also make a good campaign.

Remember Mary I isn't born yet. Queen Margret of Scotland is the heir to the English throne, and through her, James IV's son, James V. Much of world history could get a lively rewrite.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

If the Scots pike men hadn't hit that patch of mud and been forced to switch from pikes to swords, all the accounts suggest that it would have been the English who where crushed.

Briefly. The problem with making Scotland more important is much the same one with any timeline where you want to turn somebody marginal into a serious power. Henry doesn't recognize Scotland as an equal power largely because it isn't one. England has 8 to 10 times the population, and the economic imbalance is probably larger than that. The English can afford to lose this battle, or this entire army, and simply raise another one and come back next year. The Scots by and large can't. If Henry and James actually do manage to "duel to the death" Scotland ceases to exist. Their "victory" condition isn't defeat the English, it's make it too expensive to be worth the effort of conquest.