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Old 05-17-2018, 07:52 PM   #1
Minuteman37
 
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Default Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

I'm wanting to break Rcl into half points for a finer degree of variation between weapons in a non sci-fi setting. Just what guns should have a 1.5, 2.5, or even 3.5 rcl stat?

Also while I'm at it, what rifles could reasonably posses an Acc stat of 6 (or any number really), independent of Fine (accurate)?
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
I'm wanting to break Rcl into half points for a finer degree of variation between weapons in a non sci-fi setting. Just what guns should have a 1.5, 2.5, or even 3.5 rcl stat?

Also while I'm at it, what rifles could reasonably posses an Acc stat of 6 (or any number really), independent of Fine (accurate)?
You are looking at sniper rifles. Also high ROF machine guns..

Most rifles come in at Acc5. But in PG2 there is the monster Steyr-Solothurn S18-100, 20x105mmB that has a Acc5+1.

Maxim MG08, 7.92x57mm Acc6
TOZ PM-1910, 7.62x54mmR Acc6
Vickers Mk I, .303 Acc6

Otherwise look at TL5+ Telescopic Sights (HT155). Many Acc5 weapons can be made up to Acc5+1 with a scope. Also there are other bonuses for sights too.

TL6 adding a bipod can get the braced bonus for the shooter (HT160). Also having good ammunition can also get many Acc5 to Acc6 or Acc6 to Acc7 (HT165).

There's about half a dozen MGs and LMGs that (HT137) are Acc6.

Also the Barret 82 and AI AW are Acc6+3. Again many rifles are Acc5 (HT120).

Last edited by smurf; 05-18-2018 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
You are looking at sniper rifles. Also high ROF machine guns..

Most rifles come in at Acc5. But in PG2 there is the monster Steyr-Solothurn S18-100, 20x105mmB that has a Acc5+1.

Maxim MG08, 7.92x57mm Acc6
TOZ PM-1910, 7.62x54mmR Acc6
Vickers Mk I, .303 Acc6

Otherwise look at TL5+ Telescopic Sights (HT155). Many Acc5 weapons can be made up to Acc5+1 with a scope. Also there are other bonuses for sights too.

TL6 adding a bipod can get the braced bonus for the shooter (HT160). Also having good ammunition can also get many Acc5 to Acc6 or Acc6 to Acc7 (HT165).

There's about half a dozen MGs and LMGs that (HT137) are Acc6.

Also the Barret 82 and AI AW are Acc6+3. Again many rifles are Acc5 (HT120).
I mean rifles that don't already have acc 6, but are significantly more accurate then the typical acc 5 rifle.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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I mean rifles that don't already have acc 6, but are significantly more accurate then the typical acc 5 rifle.
What is the reason for this necessity? What does shooter require this level of accuracy?
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
What is the reason for this necessity? What does shooter require this level of accuracy?
Any sniper approaching world record shots comes to mind. Considering the current record is a confirmed kill from over 2 miles away, accuracy does matter.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

I don't think that's the question. The question is why you need higher resolution, as in the title. Why is it important to distinguish an Acc 5 rifle from an Acc 5.25 rifle from an Acc 5.5 rifle, granting that none of those candidates make it to the level of the Acc 6 specialty tools? And what game mechanics should these finely-grained differences affect, so that the purported differences actually make a difference in the game?

To-hit rolls are the main thing that come to mind for Acc, and you can't have a finer granularity than +/- 1. So to represent smaller differences, you're going to have to rescale to the to-hit rolls. Similarly, the Size/Speed/Range table would have to be rescaled, to reflect small differences in probabilities of a hit at very long ranges -- or in other words, reducing the increment between the steps.

That much redesign deserves some pretty strong motivation. So what's being lost in rounding various rifles off to Acc 5 or Acc 6? What character concepts can you not portray, what stories or scenes can you not depict, because of the existing granularity being too coarse, and what new gaming opportunities appear with a higher resolution?

Last edited by Anaraxes; 05-18-2018 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

Someone mentioned a confirmed sniper kill of two miles. You're not going to get that kind of shot with the standard +1 hunting/combat scope or laser targeting system that comes with the gun. You're looking at a +4 or +5 specialty sniping scope, braced w/ bipod, and the Precision Shooting rules for taking up to a minute of Aim maneuvers. Plus a spotter taking wind, elevation, and similar measurements to adjust the shooter's aim to where the target will be when the bullet arrives a few seconds later.
This is not the kind of shot to be made in combat time.

I'm curious as to the intended application of fractional Acc scores as well, given that they'd end up being rounded - and I want to say "rounded down", with even a 5.75 becoming just a 5 - to an integer anyway.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

One possible mechanic would be to make Precision Aiming slightly faster.
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

There are a lot of cases where the increased resolution of fractional Acc could come into play. These are primarily cases where a fractional bonus (normally rounded off) would be involved. An Acc 3 weapon cannot benefit from purchased match ammo, for example (3*1.25=3.75, which rounds down to 3), but an Acc 3.25 weapon could. A 6x scope would arguably be +2.5 to Acc, so with an Acc 4.5 weapon would give +7 to hit, rather than the +6 that would occur with the normal scheme. Fractional Rcl also interacts here - with an Acc 5.5, Rcl 3.5 weapon, you can retain the fraction when working out MoS, so that you could have a success by 3.5 that lands an additional hit.

Granted, these are edge cases, but if Minuteman doesn’t mind the added complexity, fractional stats may be worth it, if only for making more distinctions between weapons.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

It's important to remember that GURPS rules for weapons are gameable approximations, not hard physical realism. Most of the randomness in hit chance should actually be ascribed to environmental effects that are below the threshold of anyone wanting to work out in a game, rather than actual randomness in human performance, which is why they do a poor job of modeling use in controlled circumstances.
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