Oort Cloud implications

YankeeGamer · 04-11-2018, 08:41 AM

Traveler assumes that you need to refuel in systems, with a very few exceptions, such as the "Calibration points" set up in deep space in some settings--deep space refueling depots. That makes sense in the context of the era the game was developed. Now, however, we know that there's stuff--including ice--all over the place in deep space. Furthermore, it would be easily charted with TL 10 (either original or GURPS tech levels) equipment.

How does that affect the setting, when anyone can jump almost anywhere, at the expense of taking more time. Trade routes probably won't change much, as taking twice as long to make a trip means far less revenue, but pirates, smugglers, and other nogoodnics can avoid chokepoints, and, if necessary, make a half dozen jumps between planetfalls. Likewise, frontiers are much more permeable, with a jump 4 fleet being able to, with time, pop up 20 parsecs or more behind enemy lines, as long as they brought a fleet train.

tanksoldier · 04-11-2018, 12:47 PM

Eh, I don’t think you’re going to find a chunk of ice in an empty parsec with TL 10, or even TL 15, sensors reliably enough to jump in blind and start looking.

They probably exist, and several have probably been charged as waypoints, but that makes them really no different than any other calibration point.

Governments may have secret facilities, probably DO have secret facilities, at uncharted waypoints... there are two in the Drinax series from Mongoose... but would have put a LOT of effort into finding a suitable asteroid or ice chunk in interstellar space.... or they could simply build one, which is probably easier in the short run.

...but a fat trader saying “ Hey, let’s jump blind into this empty parsec and look around for ice to refuel from...” probably not.

Keep in mind even parsecs with systems are much larger than the system... it is possible to jump into a parsec and still be so far from the system that you can’t get to it with m-drives. There’s even room for more than one system per parsec tho Traveller doesn’t set it up that way.

A parsec is 3.26 light years across, or a sphere of 128.45 light years.... but parsecs are really 3D hexagons. So you’re searching about a 100 light year volume of space with light speed sensors and a slow sub-light drive for ice very nearly at the background temp of interstellar space.

...and you’re doing this, in most settings, with about 3 weeks of power plant fuel.

SteveS · 04-11-2018, 07:11 PM

No matter what the technology, deep space iceballs are not easy to find. Without energy from a reasonably nearby star, it rapidly cools to a temperature near the temperature of the background of space, so unless a sensor gets close enough to an iceball for its angular size to occult stars bright enough to be observed by the sensors and be cataloged so that it would be noticed if hidden by the iceball. That is an issue that is not dependent on technology.

So, to find iceballs in otherwise empty space, one needs to spend enough time in a location to observe occultations. That takes a lot of time, particularly in regions of space that are very sparse, as the Rift is supposed to be. But once they're found, they're a long-lasting resource, and a good base for finding other iceballs.

The Scout service would presumably have a lot of iceballs documented, and make the information available for commercial use -- and for the Navy to defend when fears of war run high, or to push the iceballs somewhere far from the documented location when that's strategically appropriate.

Agemegos · 04-12-2018, 05:39 PM

They're there, but they're very sparsely scattered, and moving pretty fast.

Anaraxes · 04-12-2018, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveS

The Scout service would presumably have a lot of iceballs documented, and make the information available for commercial use -- and for the Navy to defend when fears of war run high, or to push the iceballs somewhere far from the documented location when that's strategically appropriate.

Now I want to do a reality show campaign centered on the lives and problems of the crew flying what's basically just a big M-drive, finding and hauling Oort objects as needed, including those emergency Navy contracts. Call it "Ice Ball Truckers".

YankeeGamer · 04-15-2018, 09:04 PM

I would think that, by TL 10 or 11, the BIG telescopes far from the nearby start, with a correspondingly huge baseline and sensitivity, should be able to detect the bigger iceballs. Even if there are comparatively few of them per hex, the semi-routine mobility of jump 1 ships, especially in well surveyed areas, should be much better than it normally is played; there should be calibration points throughout settled sectors.

04-11-2018, 08:41 AM	#1
YankeeGamer Join Date: Dec 2017	Oort Cloud implications Traveler assumes that you need to refuel in systems, with a very few exceptions, such as the "Calibration points" set up in deep space in some settings--deep space refueling depots. That makes sense in the context of the era the game was developed. Now, however, we know that there's stuff--including ice--all over the place in deep space. Furthermore, it would be easily charted with TL 10 (either original or GURPS tech levels) equipment. How does that affect the setting, when anyone can jump almost anywhere, at the expense of taking more time. Trade routes probably won't change much, as taking twice as long to make a trip means far less revenue, but pirates, smugglers, and other nogoodnics can avoid chokepoints, and, if necessary, make a half dozen jumps between planetfalls. Likewise, frontiers are much more permeable, with a jump 4 fleet being able to, with time, pop up 20 parsecs or more behind enemy lines, as long as they brought a fleet train.

04-11-2018, 12:47 PM	#2
tanksoldier Join Date: Feb 2005	Re: Oort Cloud implications Eh, I don’t think you’re going to find a chunk of ice in an empty parsec with TL 10, or even TL 15, sensors reliably enough to jump in blind and start looking. They probably exist, and several have probably been charged as waypoints, but that makes them really no different than any other calibration point. Governments may have secret facilities, probably DO have secret facilities, at uncharted waypoints... there are two in the Drinax series from Mongoose... but would have put a LOT of effort into finding a suitable asteroid or ice chunk in interstellar space.... or they could simply build one, which is probably easier in the short run. ...but a fat trader saying “ Hey, let’s jump blind into this empty parsec and look around for ice to refuel from...” probably not. Keep in mind even parsecs with systems are much larger than the system... it is possible to jump into a parsec and still be so far from the system that you can’t get to it with m-drives. There’s even room for more than one system per parsec tho Traveller doesn’t set it up that way. A parsec is 3.26 light years across, or a sphere of 128.45 light years.... but parsecs are really 3D hexagons. So you’re searching about a 100 light year volume of space with light speed sensors and a slow sub-light drive for ice very nearly at the background temp of interstellar space. ...and you’re doing this, in most settings, with about 3 weeks of power plant fuel. Last edited by tanksoldier; 04-11-2018 at 01:04 PM.

04-11-2018, 07:11 PM	#3
SteveS Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: near Seattle WA USA	Re: Oort Cloud implications No matter what the technology, deep space iceballs are not easy to find. Without energy from a reasonably nearby star, it rapidly cools to a temperature near the temperature of the background of space, so unless a sensor gets close enough to an iceball for its angular size to occult stars bright enough to be observed by the sensors and be cataloged so that it would be noticed if hidden by the iceball. That is an issue that is not dependent on technology. So, to find iceballs in otherwise empty space, one needs to spend enough time in a location to observe occultations. That takes a lot of time, particularly in regions of space that are very sparse, as the Rift is supposed to be. But once they're found, they're a long-lasting resource, and a good base for finding other iceballs. The Scout service would presumably have a lot of iceballs documented, and make the information available for commercial use -- and for the Navy to defend when fears of war run high, or to push the iceballs somewhere far from the documented location when that's strategically appropriate.

04-12-2018, 05:39 PM	#4
Agemegos Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oz	Re: Oort Cloud implications They're there, but they're very sparsely scattered, and moving pretty fast. __________________ Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat.

04-15-2018, 09:04 PM	#6
YankeeGamer Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Oort Cloud implications I would think that, by TL 10 or 11, the BIG telescopes far from the nearby start, with a correspondingly huge baseline and sensitivity, should be able to detect the bigger iceballs. Even if there are comparatively few of them per hex, the semi-routine mobility of jump 1 ships, especially in well surveyed areas, should be much better than it normally is played; there should be calibration points throughout settled sectors.