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Old 03-09-2018, 09:27 PM   #691
Bayarea
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Re: Two simple ways to get more talents.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Bayarea, everyone.
I actually agree with you. King Conan was no dummy. However, mentioning his name was a short hand for "I want to play a tough fighter who is not a brain trust, but has lots of talents. Can't be done in TFT."

Warm regards, Rick.
I think it can, just not by a beginning character, again I have adopted some of the talents that were put up on Joe's Brainiac site. A lot of them are yours, so it seems to me a high 30's low 40's pt character can look a lot like Conan, probably not as strong though.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:42 PM   #692
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
The main advantage of ST 0 = Totally Dead
I think this is because TFT got its start in the form of Melee and Wizard, games about two people fighting in an arena. In that context there is no difference between being dead and unconscious: once someone is hors de combat the game is over. Perhaps it should have been fixed later, but it slipped through.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:59 PM   #693
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Though actually, I extrapolated it for my own amusement, and it's really not as hard as it would appear to make all talents work at four different levels. ...
Hi all, JLV.
I was thinking about talents like Armorer, or Architect Builder. Some talents are binary, you have an ability or not. You would need to write them in such a way that they now have 4 (or an indefinite number as in Legends of the Ancient World), different values.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:35 PM   #694
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

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Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
I think this is because TFT got its start in the form of Melee and Wizard, games about two people fighting in an arena. In that context there is no difference between being dead and unconscious: once someone is hors de combat the game is over. Perhaps it should have been fixed later, but it slipped through.
In Melee and Wizard, unless an arena combat is To The Death, an unconscious figure could survive to fight again. Those games have experience awards for survivors to improve for later battles, so it's quite significant in those games if someone survives unless players only choose to play stand-alone fights. I thought trying to keep gladiators alive added a lot to my enjoyment when all I had was Melee circa 1979, so the line between unconscious and dead was really important.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:48 PM   #695
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
The main advantage of ST 0 = Totally Dead, is that it is easy to write in a 24 page, micro game rule booklet. However, in a full sized rpg, I hardly think that easy death is a goal to aim for.
Warm regards, Rick.
Agreed. One thing I always liked about classic Traveller was how injury worked. There are 3 physical attributes, on a 2d6 scale (but mods can get them each as high as 15). Damage is taken from the physical attributes. When one is at zero, the character is unconscious but lightly wounded. When two are at zero, the character is unconscious and seriously wounded. When all three are at zero, the character is dead. Damage is applied in single die increments. However, the first time a character is wounded all damage is done to one attribute. Since guns typically do about 3d damage, this meant that there’s a decent chance that you’d be knocked out. This enhanced the drama a lot in my opinion. I don’t advocate this system for TFT; it’s just a great example of a system where being knocked out is comparatively easy.
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:27 AM   #696
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

I think for a game like TFT it would be acceptable to say:
  • All talents run from 0 (you don't have it) to whatever.
  • Here are a bunch of talents frequently relevant to adventuring, with rules explaining what they do.
  • Here are some other talents that generally don't matter in adventures, including everything ITL calls a mundane talent. They're intended to be taken by NPCs. If someone needs to use one in play, wing it.

The number of levels should be equal to the number of levels you can realistically distinguish in fiction. I'd say that's probably three, maybe four:
  • Basic/Apprentice: I can do the easy bits. Maybe my job involves a little bit of it. Maybe it's a hobby. Maybe I dropped out of training.
  • Professional/Journeyman: I could do this sort of thing for a living.
  • Expert/Master: I'm the best where I work and they give me the hardest jobs. When the professionals are stumped they come to me. Maybe I have professionals working for me.
  • Genius: Maybe there's a case for having skills that are spoken of in hushed tones, to represent Sherlock Holmes and the like.
The basic level is the most important thing that's missing from TFT, which generally starts at Professional and also supports Expert. It's so common: probably most soldiers have basic Woodsman, for instance, and lots will have basic Physicker, but won't have the IQ for the full versions of these talents. Plenty of people play instruments and could be given basic Bard for flavour.
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:22 AM   #697
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
I think for a game like TFT it would be acceptable to say:
  • All talents run from 0 (you don't have it) to whatever.
  • Here are a bunch of talents frequently relevant to adventuring, with rules explaining what they do.
  • Here are some other talents that generally don't matter in adventures, including everything ITL calls a mundane talent. They're intended to be taken by NPCs. If someone needs to use one in play, wing it.

The number of levels should be equal to the number of levels you can realistically distinguish in fiction. I'd say that's probably three, maybe four:
  • Basic/Apprentice: I can do the easy bits. Maybe my job involves a little bit of it. Maybe it's a hobby. Maybe I dropped out of training.
  • Professional/Journeyman: I could do this sort of thing for a living.
  • Expert/Master: I'm the best where I work and they give me the hardest jobs. When the professionals are stumped they come to me. Maybe I have professionals working for me.
  • Genius: Maybe there's a case for having skills that are spoken of in hushed tones, to represent Sherlock Holmes and the like.
The basic level is the most important thing that's missing from TFT, which generally starts at Professional and also supports Expert. It's so common: probably most soldiers have basic Woodsman, for instance, and lots will have basic Physicker, but won't have the IQ for the full versions of these talents. Plenty of people play instruments and could be given basic Bard for flavour.
In my various mods, if I fiddled with talents, I generally went with what you suggest - competent, expert and master levels. Generally, expert level reduced the success roll by 1 die and master by 2 dice. I always thought that this was a reasonable compromise between a binary “either you have it or you don’t” system and a system that rates each skill level individually.

Another approach would be the TFT inspired skill system of Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes. Generally, skills cost a certain amount of IQ points and required minimum IQ levels. Additional levels in the skill generally cost less than the base skill (usually 1 point) and added a +1 to the applicable roll. Not exactly a Runequest-style skill system, but perhaps a proto-GURPS system?

On a completely different note, I have to tip my hat to a man who steps up and fills the clear and overwhelming need for a crossbow creation system.

Where may I find your crossbow creation system? Is there a bow creation system as well? Can these be ported to TFT? If so, any suggestions on how to do it?
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:34 AM   #698
ecz
 
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Default Re: All talents get more levels.

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Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
(...)
The basic level is the most important thing that's missing from TFT, which generally starts at Professional and also supports Expert. It's so common: probably most soldiers have basic Woodsman, for instance, and lots will have basic Physicker, but won't have the IQ for the full versions of these talents. Plenty of people play instruments and could be given basic Bard for flavour.
why the basic level misses? everyone can try to use a waepon at basic level without the specifi talent, with -4 DX penalty. Anyone can try to use a guitar, without the Bard talent, at -4DX penalty. Anyone can try to disarm a trap or swim in a river, or ride a horse or drive a cart with the penalty indicated in the rules. Well perhaps it lacks a basic Physicher, but I introduced the First Aid skill, IQ 8 cost 1 that heals 1 hit. Physicher talent costs only 1 if the hero already has First Aid.
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:36 PM   #699
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

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Originally Posted by ecz View Post
why the basic level misses? everyone can try to use a waepon at basic level without the specifi talent, with -4 DX penalty. Anyone can try to use a guitar, without the Bard talent, at -4DX penalty. Anyone can try to disarm a trap or swim in a river, or ride a horse or drive a cart with the penalty indicated in the rules. Well perhaps it lacks a basic Physicher, but I introduced the First Aid skill, IQ 8 cost 1 that heals 1 hit. Physicher talent costs only 1 if the hero already has First Aid.
I don't think high DX would really stand in well for musical instrument or swimming training.
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:47 PM   #700
Bayarea
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Re: All talents get more levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
I think for a game like TFT it would be acceptable to say:
  • All talents run from 0 (you don't have it) to whatever.
  • Here are a bunch of talents frequently relevant to adventuring, with rules explaining what they do.
  • Here are some other talents that generally don't matter in adventures, including everything ITL calls a mundane talent. They're intended to be taken by NPCs. If someone needs to use one in play, wing it.

The number of levels should be equal to the number of levels you can realistically distinguish in fiction. I'd say that's probably three, maybe four:
  • Basic/Apprentice: I can do the easy bits. Maybe my job involves a little bit of it. Maybe it's a hobby. Maybe I dropped out of training.
  • Professional/Journeyman: I could do this sort of thing for a living.
  • Expert/Master: I'm the best where I work and they give me the hardest jobs. When the professionals are stumped they come to me. Maybe I have professionals working for me.
  • Genius: Maybe there's a case for having skills that are spoken of in hushed tones, to represent Sherlock Holmes and the like.
The basic level is the most important thing that's missing from TFT, which generally starts at Professional and also supports Expert. It's so common: probably most soldiers have basic Woodsman, for instance, and lots will have basic Physicker, but won't have the IQ for the full versions of these talents. Plenty of people play instruments and could be given basic Bard for flavour.
I like this for a few of reasons, first it adds more talents. And Steve if you're reading this, ADD MORE TALENTS PLEASE!!

Secondly it provides a higher level of differentiation between fighters.

Lastly you would only have to modify the talent section which I am hoping they will do anyway. So it could be First Aid (1 IQ) Physicker (2IQ only 1 if have First Aid) Master Physicker (2 IQ). Beyond that I don't think you can do much more in the field triage maybe a Surgeon for in town.
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