Injury Tolerance (Diffuse; Swarm)

[Der Wanderer]

I have some questions regarding Injury Tolerance (Diffuse; Swarm)...

1) With the Swarm enhancement you can spread your body parts/bodies over quite an area. What are the rules for getting discovered/spotted (It only says you are considered insubstantial = no traces, no noise)?

2) Can you spread over a bottomless cleft, or do you have to spread along the ground except if you have flying?

3) If a hero has the Swarm enhancement at the more expensive level and therefore can affect the physical world, does this mean that you could grab an item anywhere in the area where your body is spread, or punch someone?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

1) With the Swarm enhancement you can spread your body parts/bodies over quite an area. What are the rules for getting discovered/spotted (It only says you are considered insubstantial = no traces, no noise)?

2) Can you spread over a bottomless cleft, or do you have to spread along the ground except if you have flying?

3) If a hero has the Swarm enhancement at the more expensive level and therefore can affect the physical world, does this mean that you could grab an item anywhere in the area where your body is spread, or punch someone?

1. This one is not clear to me. As per Insubstantial, you should be noiseless and traceless, but neither Diffuse nor Insubstantial incorporate invisibility. OTOH, a character in Swarm mode should be hard to spot (perhaps depending upon the sfx). I'd say a hefty penalty to Per checks to notice the character might be in order, but you'd probably want to check with Kromm for an official answer.
2. As per Insub (which Swarm should mimic, ITR), you should be able to move (at your normal move rate) in any direction, so you should be able to effectively fly acorss chasms and the like.
3.This one is also a little tricky. Diffuse:Swarm(Affects solid) should not be as good as Insub(Affects Substantial), IMO. I think the bit about taking a Concentrate to change your pov or to recombine provides a clue to the intent: Making the effort to attack or to pick up something should require about the same mental focus as it does to recombine, so I think that either of those two actions should likewise require a Concentrate maneuver to pull off.

Just my best guesses. INK, so you're taking your chances :/ ;)

[cccwebs]

1) With the Swarm enhancement you can spread your body parts/bodies over quite an area. What are the rules for getting discovered/spotted (It only says you are considered insubstantial = no traces, no noise)?

While not official, I'd use the same "progression" as damage when spread out. example, if you are normaly a 1 hex swarm, then when spread out if 1 hex is now equal to only 5% of your area, then you would have a SM equivelant to a 3.6 inch creature (5% of 2 yards), or -8. <-- this is where the radius formula to determine the number of hexes in a set radius comes in handy....

2) Can you spread over a bottomless cleft, or do you have to spread along the ground except if you have flying?

Diffuse doesn't give any alternate move, so you will move based on whatever movement types are available to your character.

3) If a hero has the Swarm enhancement at the more expensive level and therefore can affect the physical world, does this mean that you could grab an item anywhere in the area where your body is spread, or punch someone?

This is one I haven't made a decision on myself.

[Fnordianslip]

As for crossing the chasm, no, you don't get flight for free.
However, since your swarm can encompass a huge freakin area, I'd probably run it like the character just steps over the chasm. Imagine if you were a mile tall and a mile around, would you have problems stepping two or three hundred feet?

You would be able to see, talk from, pick up an object etc, from any point in the swarm, though I might base your effective strength on the % of your swarm in that hex. I like the idea of limiting damage delt, at least physically, by the swarms actual presence. If you can throw laser beams or something, I'd probably let that be.

Basically, if a PC ponies up the 260 points for diffuse with swarm capable of affecting physical objects, I'd be pretty lenient on what I'd allow. That is, after all, quite a lot of points.

[cccwebs]

People, you're a swarm, not one huge creature but many smaller creatures which make up a mass. You don't get to increase your mass, just spread out your "individual" components to cover a larger area, which in turn will make it harder to see/hit you. So if you go from covering 1 hex to a 1/2 mile radius, whatever makes up your swarm will be harder to see and take "less" damage, but it will not let you cross a chasm unless you could have done so before you spread out.

[Fnordianslip]

A diffuse swarm is a cinematic, unrealistic, and expensive power. Looked at through that lens, I'm not really too worried about making it ultra realistic. So, I'll just call chasm crossing a GM freebie in my games. ;-) Though, of course, you're totally right.

[Not another shrubbery]

Regarding Diffuse(Swarm) and movement:

I don't have a big issue with making characters pay for flight separately, but a literal reading of the text for the enhancement seems to support the idea that the movement abilities inherent to Insub. are included with Swarm. Considering that you're paying a base of 180 pts for the latter (versus 80 for the former), it doesn't seem way out of line to give the IT:D(S) characters a break ITR.

Maybe I'm just getting soft :|
:)

[transmetahuman]

You could be a swarm of rats, or a swarm of ticks. Those don't fly. The ticks might have enough jumping range to get over the cleft, though, if your swarm write-up does.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

You could be a swarm of rats, or a swarm of ticks. Those don't fly. The ticks might have enough jumping range to get over the cleft, though, if your swarm write-up does.

Sure, but contrary examples aren't necessarily proof of the opposing premise... Such cases could just as easily be assumed to be limitations of an ad that did include flight-like movement.

[Der Wanderer]

Here are the answers I got from Kromm:

1) With the Swarm enhancement you can spread your body parts/bodies over quite an area. What are the rules for getting discovered/spotted (It only says you are considered insubstantial = no traces, no noise)?

Originally Posted by Kromm

Unless you buy Invisibility, you're visible -- at least as visible as a huge smoke cloud or a big swarm of insects. You aren't recognizably the same being as your solid form, of course. Otherwise, this ability works just like Insubstantiality; in particular, you're silent. However, you are still physically present in your home "dimension," and can be found by scent or by sensors that could normally detect vapors, particulate, bugs, or whatever (choose one "special effect").

2) Can you spread over a bottomless cleft, or do you have to spread along the ground except if you have flying (Or does it include walk on air as insubstantial)?

Originally Posted by Kromm

When I wrote, "treat this state as Insubstantiality," I meant it. You can drift upward or downward at full Move, as for Insubstantiality. The value of Swarm is +80% against a 100-point advantage for a good reason: it costs 80 points, which is identical to the cost of Insubstantiality, which it emulates in most regards. (Thank the POWERS playtesters! They were very keen on this ability.)

3) If a hero has the Swarm enhancement at the more expensive level and therefore can affect the physical world, does this mean that you could grab an item anywhere in the area where your body is spread, or punch someone?

Originally Posted by Kromm

If you've paid 260 points for Injury Tolerance (Diffuse; Swarm, +160%), then sure, you can affect things anywhere in your area. You still need to take a Ready maneuver to focus your consciousness in one location, though, just as you must to use your senses in one spot. That can make it difficult to respond to tactical situations. With that caveat, what you're asking about is within the intended scope of the ability.