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Old 08-13-2018, 01:18 PM   #1
JanMikal
 
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Default Children - Appropriate Traits?

So one of my players wants to start a child-character (around age 10 or so) and play them in more 'slice of life' little vignettes, until they are grown up more, in order to get a really good feel for the character's background and allow them to develop organically, so she can get a good feel for the personality and how they will play in the future.

I approve of this method - it allows for a fuller and richer character development, IMNSHO. However, the player has a few traits which raise the point value a little unbelievably high for a child, so I'm figuring some 'balancing' traits to bring it down some, and I was wondering what you all thought would be appropriate disadvantages for a child to have. Not stats - I'm well aware of the percentages to apply to ST and IQ and so on. Just traits. So far, I have:

Clueless (Children often don't appreciate adult wit, and I HOPE they would be clueless about seduction).
Curious (Pretty obvious for a reasonably intelligent child)
Confused
Delusions (of the 'Mom and Dad know everything variety, or perhaps about the existence of Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, etc)
Gullibility (See above)
Impulsive
Indecisive (Since a kid might not always know the 'right' things to do)
Kleptomania (Maybe for kids who haven't learned the sophisticated idea of 'personal property'. We've all known kids who have tried to walk out of stores with some sweet snack or toy without paying because they just wanted it)
Klutz (A lot of kids don't have a lot of fine motor control yet)
Lazy (Lying on the couch watching cartoons all day)
Noisy
Oblivious
Overconfident
Pacifist (Especially Reluctant Killer)
Phobias of all sort (Monsters in the closet, the dark, etc)
Selfish (Maybe more for teens?)
Short Attention Span
Slave Mentality (Kids don't really know how the world works yet, in large part)
Social Stigma (Obvious)
Susceptible (Before vaccination?)
Truthful (Some kids haven't learned to lie well)

These are just what I've come up with. Any others? Or problems with the ones I've chosen?
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:02 PM   #2
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

It's not a bad list, though I'm hoping you're not giving one character all
of these! That would be a rather badly limited character!

Some comments on some of these:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMikal View Post
Kleptomania (Maybe for kids who haven't learned the sophisticated idea of 'personal property'. We've all known kids who have tried to walk out of stores with some sweet snack or toy without paying because they just wanted it)
Kleptomania is not just a lack of grasp of private property, it's an active compulsion to steal. It's probably not appropriate for most children. Instead, I'd roll a lot of these "doesn't understand social norms yet" behaviors into a special case of Social Stigma (Uneducated). Alternatively, double the cost of Social Stigma (Minor) for such characters (to -10 points), and call it "Social Stigma (Child)".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMikal
Selfish (Maybe more for teens?)
I think most children lack the awareness of social dynamics that Selfish depends on. If you're trying to model the childish tendency to think only of themselves and their needs, I'd suggest using Low Empathy (for the very young who haven't really developed a full-fledged theory of mind yet), or Callous. For most "typical" level of this behavior, though, where it's not particularly consistent, and mostly excused as "kids being kids", I'd just roll it into the Social Stigma (Child) I mentioned above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMikal
Susceptible (Before vaccination?)
Hmm. This is an interesting question - should this be a disadvantage for children, or a very common advantage for adults? I guess to avoid point inflation, it's probably better as a disadvantage for kids. I probably wouldn't more than -1 point for this, though, at least in a setting with modern medicine. Mostly, this is going to boil down to one or two encounters with the common diseases, then go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMikal
Truthful (Some kids haven't learned to lie well)
This should be Easy to Read, not Truthful, I think. Kids who don't lie well are generally still willing to do so (often more willing!), rather than having a moral or mental compulsion to tell the truth.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

I would actually argue Bestial for children not able to grasp social norms yet (and a milder version as they grow out of it). Mostly in the sub-6 years range, and not just because this is when children tend to be particularly bitey >.>
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

From my own kids and generally working with kids, in my experience some of these are more common than others.

Disclaimer: I generalise a lot especially about "boys" and "girls". That's to keep things simple, and most often says more about how they are brought up as buys and girls rather than some biological trait.


Clueless (not at full level but at quirk level. Most kids age 10 certainty understand if you are witty on their expense, even if they don't always understand the exact joke they know if they are the target, especially if there are others who react to the 'wit').

Curious (Yea most kids would press the big red button. But they might not really care why a car can move on its own, or why the moon goes from new to full or why that teacher always wears a trenchcoat and hat even on hot days. So I would probably reduce it to quirk level and throw it under Impulsive)

Confused (Yes, very much so!)

Impulsive (Good pick yes)

Noisy (Oh god yes! And; Houserule: this stacks exponentially with the number of kids! More seriously though kids can be really stealthy if they want to. And most kids play games that train stealth. ) [edit] Actually it might be fitting to give kids Compulsive Carousing. this is not meant as "drinking and partying" but "to have fun... loudly - disregarding the consequences". [/edit]

Oblivious (Fitting at quirk level or with a limitation regarding 'adult motivations'. But I can promise you many 10-year old girls know exactly how to manipulate their peers).

Pacifist (Especially Reluctant Killer) (I would go further than this, most kids generally don't like real violence at all. Cartoon-violence not withstanding. Buys are often indirectly encouraged to buy this down and might have lower levels. Btw. bullying and 'social-violence' is not included in this trait).

Phobias of all sort (Monsters in the closet, the dark, etc. The most common I have heard of is indeed "the dark", but more than that "Being Alone").

Selfish (Maybe a bit harsh on the kids but could be fitting with a high control number or at quirk level, but yes kids that age are often very status-minded, especially the girls who are often a bit ahead of the boys social-wise. )

Short Attention Span or maybe more fitting Absent-Minded - or both. (I don't know how often I tell my kids to go get something only to find them 10 mins after, doing something completely different: "Oh, I forgot!". But could be quirk level instead.)


Bad temper (Many kids have yet to be able to control their feelings. At 10 they tend to be better at but it's still there (higher control number) it and they do not react with violence but with tantrums).

Charitable (Not at full value, but kids - not yet hardened to the ruthless world - tend to want to help others if they can (as long as they don't have to give them any of their own stuff/candy). So a quirck level where they have a penalty to resist people in need of help... Unless you start playing roleplaying game with them and suddenly they won't help any NPC' without a reward offered first)

Easy to read (Kids are generally really good at showing how they feel... that it, they are horrible at concealing their immediate reaction to things. Such as saying "I'm sorry-like you mean it", and to conceal "they know something you do not" or keep a straight face when lying. I say 'immediate reaction' because, sadly, kids who really have something to hide, such as abuse, quickly become really good at it).

Extra sleep (Kids age 10 need 9-10 hours of sleep a night).

Fearfulness (Kids are often more fearful than adults. They know less of the world and have livid imaginations, and if scared tend to react stronger than adults. This could also just be lower Will in general).

Gluttony (candy-only ;) )

Honesty (This is not common as in "many kids have it" but there is always one in every class).

Imaginative (I would stretch this to include works of art and 'things to do when bored'... with focus on the "they might not be good ideas").

Shyness (Again not at all all children. But it is a very common disadd for kids).

Squeamish (Most kids really do not like 'yucky stuff'. But I am not sure it's worth a full disad. but they react stronger than adults and so I think a quirk level is justified. Many girls are 'trained' to have this disad or at least react like they have it, even if they don't. Some boys have whatever the opposite of squeamish is and revel in anything gross).

Stubbornness (another 'not everyone, but common to see among kids, and not just the ache-typical 'spoiled brat'. My oldest has this one... man that's an annoying disad).

Last edited by Maz; 08-13-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

Easy To Read is definitely the "18-month-old with chocolate all over their face claiming they didn't steal the chocolate" disadvantage. Half the problem with children is irrepressible body language, tone of voice, bad and fumbling sentence construction, but the other half is a really cruddy theory of mind. Both can be rolled into Easy To Read IMO.

They need a theory of mind to lie - they need to understand that you might not know they stole the chocolate, and further that they can manipulate the contents of your mind with their words (and ideally behavior but that's advanced thoughts). But they need a good theory of mind and a lot of self restraint to lie well, and that's something you only get when your brain bits grow up.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Squeamish (Most kids really do not like 'yucky stuff'. But I am not sure it's worth a full disad. but they react stronger than adults and so I think a quirk level is justified. Many girls are 'trained' to have this disad or at least react like they have it, even if they don't. Some boys have whatever the opposite of squeamish is and revel in anything gross).
That's an Odious Personal Habit :)
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I would actually argue Bestial for children not able to grasp social norms yet (and a milder version as they grow out of it). Mostly in the sub-6 years range, and not just because this is when children tend to be particularly bitey >.>
I thought about Bestial, but I'd argue that even the -10 version of Bestial is a bit too intense for most children, at least children past the age where they can serve as characters effectively. A two-year-old might justify the full -10 for Bestial, but I have a really hard time seeing someone play a 2-year-old. By the time they reach what I'd consider playable age, I think children don't qualify for full Bestial. That said, I basically had Bestial in mind when suggesting the extra -5 for Social Stigma (extremely young) or (childlike), and I could see describing it as Bestial (Only issues that children under 10 have issues with, -50%) for [-5] as well.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

I think you need to look at cognitive/educational ones. Toddlers have their native language at Broken/None. By the time they start school it gets to Accented/None, as children commonly speak with imprecise articulation, have trouble with polysyllables, and have limited vocabularies. Either before or during elementary school it goes to Accented. It's probably simplest to give them Native starting in middle school/junior high school and attribute remaining issues of grammar and vocabulary to IQ differences, though if their ability to read remains impaired you might go or Native/Broken all the way to adulthood.

Toddlers are characteristically Innumerate, having to count on their fingers. They buy off most of this in elementary school, leaving them Math-Shy. If they reach the formal operational stage, they can buy this off, but a lot of adults remain uncomfortable with math and avoid doing it.

Toddlers have very limited general knowledge, which gradually improves over the course of school attendance, but I think this is simplest to handle by saying that you draw on general knowledge by making an IQ roll, and thus part of IQ represents general knowledge, and as a consequence you can lump increased general education into changes in IQ during maturation (an average human has IQ 5 in infancy, 7 at age 5, 9 at age 10, and 10 at age 15, per p. B20). General education also opens the door to book-learned skills like Accounting, History, or Physics; it's a bit of a handwave, but my fix in GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School was to say that children have both Social Stigma (Minor) and Social Stigma (Uneducated), but since everyone expects children to be uneducated, they don't get an extra reaction modifier and it's not worth points, whereas when they reach adult years, they no longer have Minor but get negative reactions if they're still Uneducated, so that modifier is now worth points.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

From my own children. The 10 year old has a few of those (again maybe limiting them to 2 or 3) but on the flip side she has 'innocent face'. The 14 year old is definitely noisy and is loud when playing his X box.

Of course there are 'Odious Personal Habits' such as goes to the park and play football (soccer) in my 16 year old's case and that is alternated with on line gaming. The other two have similar behaviours.

Then if there are siblings involved there is intolerance to other sibling or jealousy or enemy. Again not true in all cases.

They will have Patrons (Mum and Dad or equivalent thereof). Or Allies in their family (possibly a taxi service through uncles, aunts, grand parents etc plus a place for food or sleep). They could even have 'Tenure' through pocket money (allowance) or have to go to school and work at the mall or paper round.

The comicPaper_Girls depicts a story of four 12 year old girls on an adventure through time. It may be helpful for source material. Recently Marvel had created a plethora of teenage heroes: Kamala Khan, Riri Williams, Miles Morales, Amadeus Cho and Laura Kinney and Lyra Walters would be considered High School Students.
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Children - Appropriate Traits?

It also depends on the type of game that you are playing (even if it is slice of life, that can be mixed into a lot of genres). In most games though, I would generally give children under the age of four Ridiculous Luck, children under the age of eight Extraordinary Luck, and children under the age of twelve Luck (children can survive the most incredible accidents and can occasionally have amazing luck in general). Their varying levels of Luck can partially compensate for their low attributes, low skills, and low techniques, granting them surprising effectiveness every once and a while.
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