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Old 09-07-2014, 10:58 AM   #11
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

Clarity, interest value, and plausibility are subtly interwoven aspects of the skill once you get Writing past default.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Intelligence Analysis covers lots of other aspects of infoverification. Detect Lies seems to be only about whether the person writing the text seemed to be telling the truth. Which is not the same as whether the facts stated in the text are true - after all, a person can unknowingly transmit a falsehood!

Yes, it is. I'm not sure: did I contradict this somewhere?
Detect lies is already a "minor or limited" super power. The idea of using it to detect written lies shatters my suspension of disbelief in ways few things can.

I could barely imagine suspecting someone of written lies only if given mass quantities of material to pore over. It's that sheer volume of information that makes me prefer to put it in Intelligence Analysis.

Of all the unrealistic things I see on the television program Criminal Minds, Reeds' personality and deception analysis of writing seems the most extreme.
...
I assumed your description of Body Language in that post was as to how it differed from Detect Lies. So the line about acting made me curious why or why not Detect Lies mentioned it.
I couldn't remember off the top of my head, so...
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I think, though that I would significantly penalize Detect Lies if it were to be used with a written document given the lack of cues. Probably enough that you'd have to have nigh-supernatural skill levels to do it that way.
-3 (SE37). You're using the skill of analysing the lie (Detect Lies), not the facial cues that happen to accompany it (Body Language).
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:11 AM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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Clarity, interest value, and plausibility are subtly interwoven aspects of the skill once you get Writing past default.
That's what real people are doing when they think they're using "Detect Lies", analyzing material for internal consistency and plausibility.

Writing could be used to convince someone of truths they aren't comfortable with. People will try to find reasons to think you're inconsistent or unconsciously or even consciously lying. We all do this, not just conspiracy nuts.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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Detect lies is already a "minor or limited" super power. The idea of using it to detect written lies shatters my suspension of disbelief in ways few things can.

I could barely imagine suspecting someone of written lies only if given mass quantities of material to pore over. It's that sheer volume of information that makes me prefer to put it in Intelligence Analysis.
Lately I'm exposed to a large number of news reports intermixed with propaganda on both sides. Occasionally, I manage to tag a given paragraph or small article as very likely a lie and it gets confirmed to be so later. I'm not skilled in Detect Lies, so it doesn't happen often, of course. I think actually trained people should be way better than silly me at my default and ineptitude of social skills.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I assumed your description of Body Language in that post was as to how it differed from Detect Lies. So the line about acting made me curious why or why not Detect Lies mentioned it.
I couldn't remember off the top of my head, so...
If it was triggered about my character's choices . . .
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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Note that I still have to choose between relying on Empathy and Body Language even for face-to-face meetings: Body Language (and Detect Lies) can be resisted by Acting. It can also be fooled by employing software to generate one's body's or avatar's body language instead of controlling it directly.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Lately I'm exposed to a large number of news reports intermixed with propaganda on both sides. Occasionally, I manage to tag a given paragraph or small article as very likely a lie and it gets confirmed to be so later. I'm not skilled in Detect Lies, so it doesn't happen often, of course. I think actually trained people should be way better than silly me at my default and ineptitude of social skills.

If it was triggered about my character's choices . . .
You just argued quite well for my Intelligence Analysis point.
If at all possible, Detect Lies is a social skill working off humans' "tells" as they unconsciously try to tell the truth.

Weird, my brain simply ignored the parenthetical Detect Lies in your post.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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You just argued quite well for my Intelligence Analysis point.
If at all possible, Detect Lies is a social skill working off humans' "tells" as they unconsciously try to tell the truth.
Why IA? IA is getting lots of info from different sources, and detecting the false ones based on how they interrelate. I was describing a case when a new bit of info (not related to earlier stuff) shows up, and it is possible to figure whether it is true if you're critically-thinking enough.

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Weird, my brain simply ignored the parenthetical Detect Lies in your post.
I added Detect Lies after your post. My point is a comparison of BL and Empathy.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:53 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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-3 (SE37). You're using the skill of analysing the lie (Detect Lies), not the facial cues that happen to accompany it (Body Language).
That would be the penalty for only hearing the subject's voice but not seeing them. Neither seeing nor hearing them means at least a double penalty.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:55 AM   #19
Flyndaran
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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Why IA? IA is getting lots of info from different sources, and detecting the false ones based on how they interrelate. I was describing a case when a new bit of info (not related to earlier stuff) shows up, and it is possible to figure whether it is true if you're critically-thinking enough.

I added Detect Lies after your post. My point is a comparison of BL and Empathy.
Because there is simply no fathomable reason to know if I'm lying when I write, "I lost my virginity at age 24 to my second girlfriend."
Without even getting into the fact that if your definition of virginity is different than mine you would come to the wrong conclusions even if you come to the correct conclusion that I'm telling the truth.

If you had scores of my writing about my sexual experiences you could further pin down the most likely veracity of such statements. That's not detect lies as it only involves conflicting information and logical analysis, not hoodoo interpersonal mind reading.

I consider empathy as it's written in Gurps to be supernatural, so I don't have a problem with combining it with a more realistic Body Language skill.

Interesting conflicts may arise if your psychic empathy tells you someone is off but Body Language says perfectly normal. That could give you more information than either alone. That combination would pique my interests and inner alarm bells in any supernatural game.
What types of setting creatures can so fully mask their alien nature?

Going the other way, BL says off kilter, but Empathy says nervous but normal which leads to the likelihood of social disabilities.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Body Language

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That would be the penalty for only hearing the subject's voice but not seeing them. Neither seeing nor hearing them means at least a double penalty.
I once had a freakish sense of smell, but detecting lies wasn't among its uses.
;)
I wonder if a super intelligent dog could train for such a penalized but still possible skill use.
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