[Magic] Demons and Spirits and Things, oh my!

[Joseph R]

I'm trying to understand the default assumptions for the spells that govern summoning and influencing/controlling of demons, spirits and other 'supernatural' entities. It's likely that I will tweak these to fit my campaign, but I want to be sure I understand the 'RAW' before I change/break anything.

Is Sense Spirit intended to find only 'necromantic' spirits (formerly alive/mortal persons) and their animated remains, or does it also detect demons? What spells exist to sense other types, such as nature spirits?

The Summon Spirit spell only works on a dead person, not any other type of spirit. How does one summon other types of spirit? The Command Spirit and Bind Spirit spells require specialisation, but does this includes types that are not 'necromantic'?

Demons seemed to be classed as a unique class of extra-dimensional entities that are conjured and controlled all with the Summon Demon spell. It seems the assumption is that this spell covers every and all demon 'types', but how does the caster exhibit any control (beyond general power-level/cost) of which entity s/he summons? The Planar Summons spell indicates that one spell is required for each plane. This implies that all Demons must come from the same place (e.g. Hell), but what about such things (or Things) that are labelled as demons, but don't come from the same places? How does this all fit in those fantasy worlds where different cultures do not have a uniform cosmology?

I have looked through various supplements that use the default magic system to try and see worked examples, but couldn't find much that clarified; often the spells are without specialisation examples. Any suggestions/advice appreciated.

[Walrus]

English isn't you native language, is it?

Is Sense Spirit intended to find only 'necromantic' spirits (formerly alive/mortal persons) and their animated remains, or does it also detect demons?

Necromantic only. There are plenty of spells from other colleges to detect or summon magical beings. Just look for words "Summon", "Seek", "Sense", etc. in alphabetical spell index.
Moreover, Demons aren't spirits at all in standard GURPS Magic setting. They do have some soul-like entity but it just jumps to "demonic" plane when physical demon is destroyed.

The Summon Spirit spell only works on a dead person, not any other type of spirit. How does one summon other types of spirit?

Using appropriate summon spell (seek index again ;) )

The Command Spirit and Bind Spirit spells require specialisation, but does this includes types that are not 'necromantic'?

Of course. There are specific elemental spells in appropriate colleges as well.
Necromancy deals only with "dead" spirits, you know.

what about such things (or Things) that are labelled as demons, but don't come from the same places? How does this all fit in those fantasy worlds where different cultures do not have a uniform cosmology?

The GM rules what cosmology is true in the world. If there are several really demonic planes then there are several different Summon Demon spell variations (as Planar Summon). If Magic in the world is separated then you might require Cultural Familiarity or at least a perk to learn Summon Demon specialization for another culture.

The difference between Demonic Planes may be the plot element in Dark Fantasy. Usual fight between Good and Evil may be turned to fight between Evil and another Evil.

[Refplace]

The college the spell comes from is a good clue overall.
Necromantic is for Spirits.
The various Elemental for specific elements.
Gate is for more exotic things.
But you could also create colleges based on a particular demon plane or other cosmology that would not just include their summoning and control but other spells related to them as well.
Base these off the Necromantic and elemental colleges for your core idea.
Example
Aetherial College summons beings of energy from the Aetherial plane and can also summon and control bolts of energy and sunlight.
Erubus College deals with chaos
Things Man Was Not Meant To Know summons and attempts to control these things but also has some sanity blasting and fear spells.
Maybe some other spells for manipulating reality itself.

[Joseph R]

Thanks for the replies.

One of the reasons for my initial confusion is the fact that the term 'spirit' can have a number of different meanings. It seems to me that the standard GURPS interpretation is that it means the entity is assumed to have the meta-trait of the same name. This doesn't seem to have to be necromantic, merely non-corporeal.

Just because the spells that deal with Spirits are clustered in the Necromantic college, doesn't automatically mean (to me) that it only covers dead people. After all, Demons aren't usually considered (un)dead, let alone considered people. It seemed to me that there might just not have been another more suitable college in the default system.

If non-necromantic, non-demonic, non-elemental spirits aren't supposed to be covered by the Command and Bind spells (because those are in the Necromantic college), then what are they covered by?

Originally Posted by Walrus

Just look for words "Summon", "Seek", "Sense", etc. in alphabetical spell index.

I already did ;-) None of the four existing "Summon" spells seems to cover entities that aren't Demonic, Elemental or Necromantic. None of the "Seek" or "Sense" spells (bar Sense Spirit) seems to cover supernatural entities. If the Spirit spells I asked about are necromantic-only, then non-necromantic spirits appear not to be covered at all.

This seems like an omission. Perhaps that's deliberate, due to the default cosmology assumed. It wasn't obviously logical to me, hence my asking :-)

[Bruno]

What with Manitous being one of the examples, I would say that all the [Spirit] spells that require specialization can be specialized in a variety of "spirits", not just ghosts vs wraiths vs shades (or whatever). But you have to use the right specialty, and the Necromantic spell may indeed not cover the full gamut. If you have "animal spirits", then the equivalent specialties might be Animal college spells, not Necomantic. As an example.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Unwitting Pawn

I'm trying to understand the default assumptions for the spells that govern summoning and influencing/controlling of demons, spirits and other 'supernatural' entities. It's likely that I will tweak these to fit my campaign, but I want to be sure I understand the 'RAW' before I change/break anything.

Is Sense Spirit intended to find only 'necromantic' spirits (formerly alive/mortal persons) and their animated remains, or does it also detect demons? What spells exist to sense other types, such as nature spirits?

A spell to detect "nature spirits" would be a new spell, probably associated with plant or animal depending.

The Summon Spirit spell only works on a dead person, not any other type of spirit. How does one summon other types of spirit?

With other spells you make up. Seriously as a GM you are not limited to the spells in the book.

[Jerander]

Part of the problem is that GURPS tries to be a generic system and the definition of "spirit' is setting dependent. So part of our jobs as GMs is to define "spirit." Having done so, we can pick the variants of Bind Spirit etc. that are necessary, and assign them to the correct colleges as needed.

Originally Posted by Bruno

What with Manitous being one of the examples, I would say that all the [Spirit] spells that require specialization can be specialized in a variety of "spirits", not just ghosts vs wraiths vs shades (or whatever). But you have to use the right specialty, and the Necromantic spell may indeed not cover the full gamut. If you have "animal spirits", then the equivalent specialties might be Animal college spells, not Necomantic. As an example.

Riffing off of Bruno, I have variant of Bind Spirit (etc.) for:

Animal Spirits in my Animal college
Plant Spirits in my Plant college
Demons in my Gate college (I've moved demons out of Necromancy)
Faeries in my Gate college
Elementals in my Elemental colleges
Djinn in my Gate college
Undead in my Necromantic college

plus I've established a "Spirit college" for those who specialize in dealing with spirits of any variety.

[Joseph R]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I wanted to be sure I hadn't missed something glaringly obvious. I guess you have confirmed what I feared - that there are gaps in the default magic system that matter to my campaign. Gaps that I'll have to plug!

Thanks again :-)