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Old 03-17-2013, 06:07 PM   #1
Joseph R
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London, U.K.
Default GCA apparent cause of Win7 64-bit OS crash (unexpected reboot)

Hello,

My PC (Windows 7, 64-bit) sometimes crashes, and it appears that GCA is somehow involved.

The symptoms are as if a hardware reset had been triggered. There is no freezing (app or OS); no error messages or BSOD. The PC merely clicks "off" and reboots to the mboard splash logo, before proceeding to start loading the OS. I then get prompted to try the Windows startup repair/recovery process (default option) which I ignore (as it can't find any issue, at least in this case) and "Start Windows normally". After the OS has finished loading, there is no evidence that anything was the matter (bar GCA or other apps that were running at the time offering to recover open files the next time I run the program, of course).

I have had such symptoms on and off for a while now, and until today I had not entertained that GCA (or any other app) could be the cause. I had put it down to an as-yet undiagnosed hardware problem. Indeed, GCA may not have been the cause of my past issues. However, the 3 times that the issue happened today, GCA was running, and the last 2 times I was actively interacting with the program when the reboot occurred.

System event log has offered no clue, just Event ID 6008 ("The previous system shutdown at 22:38:09 on ‎17/‎03/‎2013 was unexpected."). All the messages immediately proceeding and following appear to be normal startup events. I can't see anything useful in Application event log, either.

I have searched the forum for GCA issues and not found anyone else reporting an actual OS crash that I could find. I saw the DEP issue mentioned regarding Win7, but my PC was already set to "Turn on DEP for essential Windows programs and services only". I had followed Celjebba's post here http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...54&postcount=7 and found that "disableusercallbackexception" was indeed set, so I changed the value to "DisableNXShowUI" just in case, but from what I understand this shouldn't actually matter either way due to the previous DEP setting.

Now my PC is home-built, and the CPU and GPU overclocked; more reason for me to suspect hardware rather than software cause. However the CPU and GPU do not seem to be under much load when the issue occurs, and the fans are quiet and the CPU/GPU temperatures are rarely above 40c/45c respectively, which all seems comfortably within tolerance levels.

Any suggestions? Is there any additional info or troubleshooting that Armin, etc would find useful?

My next step was probably to setup an XP virtual machine and run GCA in that, which should bypass the issue, but it would be nicer to actually have it fixed (or at least the cause of the conflict isolated), if possible.

Sorry for the WoT, just trying to be comprehensive :-)
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:29 PM   #2
panton41
 
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Default Re: GCA apparent cause of Win7 64-bit OS crash (unexpected reboot)

Considering this has never been reported before on stock systems and the fact you also overclock your system I think it's vastly more likely it's a hardware issue related to overclocking. Mind you it could be a compatibility problem with the decade-old Visual Studio 6 runtime code and an overclocked Windows 7 64-bit system.

Keep in mind I used to work for Asus in the department troubleshooting home-build computers. I didn't work with overclocking (different department across the room) but I needed to be educated on common overclocking problems. (And the overclocking department's point of view on the practice was more or less "it's not worth it.")
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:33 AM   #3
Joseph R
 
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Default Re: GCA apparent cause of Win7 64-bit OS crash (unexpected reboot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaran_skye View Post
Considering this has never been reported before on stock systems and the fact you also overclock your system I think it's vastly more likely it's a hardware issue related to overclocking.
Sure, this had always been my thought too. Yet, the recent issue does seem to have occurred whilst I was using GCA, rather than say, playing a 3D game. I had searched the forum like I said, but I posted here to make sure that I hadn't missed something.

(I bought my copy of GCA several years ago (retail CD edition from FLGS) but have only used it periodically. I had started using it again recently, as part of my attempt to "digitise" my notes.)

Ultimately, if it is indeed GCA, then I expect the issue to be reproduced fairly soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaran_skye View Post
Mind you it could be a compatibility problem with the decade-old Visual Studio 6 runtime code and an overclocked Windows 7 64-bit system.
Any suggestions on how to test this hypothesis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaran_skye View Post
Keep in mind I used to work for Asus in the department troubleshooting home-build computers.
I will, thank you. In fact my GPU is an Nvidia-based Asus card with a stock overclock from the factory. One of my previous steps, when encountering issues with Defense Grid, was actually to increase the OC voltage slightly. (I had found some user reports online that manufacturer OC'd cards don't seem to come with enough of a matching voltage increase out of the box.) This did appear to help in that case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaran_skye View Post
I didn't work with overclocking (different department across the room) but I needed to be educated on common overclocking problems. (And the overclocking department's point of view on the practice was more or less "it's not worth it.")
Interesting. Was that "not worth it" in the sense of the risks being too great, the reward being negligible, or both?
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:15 AM   #4
johndallman
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Default Re: GCA apparent cause of Win7 64-bit OS crash (unexpected reboot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unwitting Pawn View Post
(I bought my copy of GCA several years ago (retail CD edition from FLGS) but have only used it periodically. I had started using it again recently, as part of my attempt to "digitise" my notes.)
Updating it is advisable. Recent builds of GCA are substantially more reliable IME than ones from several years ago. On my old XP system, the problems didn't manifest as BSODs, more usually GCA freezing, but an update is certainly worth trying.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:56 PM   #5
panton41
 
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Default Re: GCA apparent cause of Win7 64-bit OS crash (unexpected reboot)

If it's any help I run Windows 8 64-bit on a slightly overclocked* Core i5 2500K and have never seen a problem. Not to dig too deeply (that's what an overclocking forum is for) but have you tried any "burn-in" tools? I'll admit that editing a complex character in GCA makes a nice stress test for the CPU and hard drive.

* Not on purpose, it just happened a BIOS update left my CPU overclocked at stock settings.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:49 AM   #6
Joseph R
 
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Location: London, U.K.
Default Re: GCA apparent cause of Win7 64-bit OS crash (unexpected reboot)

Well, just to confirm that GCA wasn't the issue, after all. Seems that my power supply has the problem; still not sure why though (reasonable brand, under warranty, and about 100W over apparent spec for my PC). I won't bore all my troubleshooting steps, but suffice to say that I have proven PC working fine with another PSU. Now I just need to take it up with Antec (manufacturer of faulty unit)!

Thanks for the advice, and apologies for the false alarm. That the power supply got much, much worse just at the moment I started using GCA again was obviously a coincidence that got the better of me :-)
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